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Author Topic: Doctor Who: Plot and Theories Discussion  (Read 9356 times)

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November 28, 2013, 04:28:06 PM
Reply #40

Kickassnoodle

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Bringing this over from 50th Anniversary thread:
I've just watched The Day of The Doctor, and it all fits!
Quote from roonwit, from the Doctor Who Plot and Theories thread. (In a spoiler tag.)
Quote
Firstly, the Doctor didn't destroy Gallifrey, he stuck it in a time lock, which was why the Master was almost able to bring it back.
It's the only thing about the Time War I was confused about, and The Day of The Doctor explains it all.
I agree that it explains it all and that's great. But what I was more getting at in my post is the implications of this reveal to the Doctor as a character and what people think about that. Like, how do you think the Doctor is going to be changed by this new development? Will it be a good thing in terms of driving the Doctor's actions and stuff? Since his feelings of sadness and guilt and everything about destroying Gallifrey have been such a big driving force in Doctor's character since the reboot, is it going to be basically gone now?
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November 28, 2013, 09:59:06 PM
Reply #41

roonwit

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I agree that it explains it all and that's great. But what I was more getting at in my post is the implications of this reveal to the Doctor as a character and what people think about that. Like, how do you think the Doctor is going to be changed by this new development? Will it be a good thing in terms of driving the Doctor's actions and stuff? Since his feelings of sadness and guilt and everything about destroying Gallifrey have been such a big driving force in Doctor's character since the reboot, is it going to be basically gone now?
I think the Doctor will still feel guilty about exiling Gallifrey but I think his dark mood will largely lift, and he will go into quest mode looking for Gallifrey for the next series possibly starting with the Christmas episode. Of course this personality shift might be modified by the regeneration or helped by it. Perhaps the series after that will focus on the Doctor dealing with the the Time Lords, as presumably the Dark Time Lords such as Rassilon are presumably still there and might want revenge on the Doctor or to rule the Universe or destroy it.
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December 04, 2013, 08:00:30 PM
Reply #42

BillieMac

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I'm putting this here, then asking the Mods for a new thread.

I got two Doctor Who DVDs last week; The Three Doctors, and the 1996 TV movie. Lots of interesting information on the movie, but I was really surprised by something everybody failed to mention.
The info text gives the shooting dates, and all of the studio scenes were shot in a two week cluster. When McCoy is lying outside the TARDIS he was freezing, and McGann was freezing in his post-regeneration scenes, mostly from his bare feet. What nobody mentions is - why.
They got hit by THE BLIZZARD OF '96!!
That blizzard is LEGEND here. Two major cities, Vancouver and Victoria, shut down for three days, and half of the region took another week to be fully up and running. The Pineapple Express (a winter monsoon from Hawaii) doesn't get here until February, so the crew must have had to do a lot of digging.
See, the West Coast isn't like the rest of Canada. We're just not that used to snow. When the weather got back to normal, everybody was soaked, but we know how to handle rain.

Too many plot holes right from the start, (since when did Daleks bother with trials?) especially for long time fans, but I find myself watching, or more accurately listening to, some scenes over and over, and listening to Commentary Track 2. I've fallen in love with Paul McGann's voice. (McCoy actually does most of the talking; he's hilarious.)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 08:08:56 PM by BillieMac »
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December 11, 2013, 10:00:38 PM
Reply #43

BillieMac

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Whoops! The dates got mixed up in my memory.
The blizzard hit on Dec. 26th '96, but the effects lay deep on the ground almost through February '97, so I was a year off. It certainly left an impression, and I guess that's why my mind flashed back to it when I saw the months on the DVD text info.
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December 20, 2013, 10:11:55 PM
Reply #44

BillieMac

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Has anyone seen a copy of an old DW song parody, The Brigadier's Lament? I've only seen it once, waaayyy back in the '80s-  I'm talking mimeograph here-  and I'd really like a copy. Searched the web; couldn't find.

Now, something I'd been thinking about for awhile.
Somewhere on this Platform, (no time to search right now,) someone was talking about the scene in A Good Man Goes to War where Amy is talking to Melody. You think she's talking about the Doctor, but then it turns out to be Rory.
A similar incident was in Let's Kill Hitler. Those miniaturized guys in the robot suddenly notice they've got "the biggest war criminal of them all" in their sights.
Who did not think at first that they meant the Doctor? The man who has confessed to double genocide. Screamed his confession, in fact, in Dalek. And mini-guys had his picture on the screen, too. Then it turns out they mean River, and what they've got is a victim photo.
He must be supremely important to maintaining peace in the universe, if killing this one man is the worst war crime of, literally, all time.

With The Time of The Doctor imminent, how is it all going to fit in? Obviously after The Day of The Doctor,  but  the Doctor and Clara, according to the ads, seem to be back on Trensilor (sp?), and when you get right down to it, The Name of The Doctor ended on a cliffhanger, so thematically, Name should run right into Time.
I think something got missed in the edit; like the actual conclusion where it becomes obvious that Clara has saved the Doctor. She clearly did- at the start of Day, she and the Tardis have resolved their differences.

Don't expect Carol Anne Ford or Louise Jameson to reprise their roles in the future. Both Susan and Leela would have been early casualties in the Time War.

No slight on John Hurt- he did a beautiful job- but from a dramatic standpoint, the tragedy would have been deeper if they'ed gotten Paul McGann; a Doctor unsuited for war in it until the end. The minisode Night of The Doctor served more to illustrate the logic of the decision.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 10:12:49 PM by BillieMac »
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December 22, 2013, 11:45:12 PM
Reply #45

BillieMac

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It also made me think of past actions of the Time Lords, interfering in the Doctor's life. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, it could have been genuine concern for his safety.
They must have noticed, by the start of the Tom Baker era, that he was going through his lives at an alarming rate. Saddling him with Romana seems a failed attempt to curb his reckless behavior. Then there was the "Hail Mary pass" of granting him a second set of regenerations. (Was that The Deadly Assassin, Trial of a Time Lord or another serial? I've never had a chance to see either of them.)
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December 28, 2013, 09:25:21 PM
Reply #46

BillieMac

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Had a bit of trouble yesterday. I forgot to click "stay logged in", finished my post, clicked "preview" and-- ARRRGHH!!! @#$%&*!
Anyway, take 2.

STEPHEN MOFFATT IS A $&#*ing GENIUS!!

I had been dissatisfied with the story arcs the past two seasons, but with Time of The Doctor, he's woven all the Timey Wimey threads into a coherent fabric. I know it's impossible in the realities of TV filming for it to have all been pre-planned, but Moffatt was clearly leading in this direction all along. Controversies about the lives count have been settled, and insights into the Doctor's character are, for me, confirmed.

From Eccleston to Smith, the effects of the Karn potion haven't worn off, and he's been the Warrior Doctor all along. And he's been so good at war, too, his victories in battle being quite spectacular.
Doctor 9 was willing to destroy another world he loved in order to save the universe from the Daleks. It was only the Dalek Emperor (right?) taunting him- saying he had become like them-  that stopped him.
Doctor 10 truly came alive in battle, the adrenaline rush stimulating his mind. In Runaway Bride I finally saw his dark side, as he mercilessly watched the nest both burn and drown. That was the part of him that dominated in his Doctor-Donna twin, who gleefully blew up the Dalek ship.
Doctor 11 was again in his element in battle, able to send the Atraxi fleeing with his reputation and an introduction.
"Hello. I'm The Doctor. Run."
At Stonehenge, although it turns out that his enemies were just waiting for the right moment to put their plan into action, he has cause to believe that his reputation has them too cowed to take the first shot. At Demon's Run, his ability to summon and lead an army is at the forefront. Finally, on  Trensilor, his centuries as the defender of Christmas, (and if Moffatt claims there's no symbolism in that...) culminate in facing what he believe's to be a warrior's death, but turns out to be a fatal parting shot to thousands of Daleks. (And how many of his new lives did he burn up all at once, blasting those pesky pepper pots out of the sky?)

As much as I've love the reboot, it now seems more of an upgrade; the true reboot happening now. (In computer terms, my analogy works.)
With Moffatt's departure and an older actor playing the new Doctor, I'm looking forward to something more akin to the spirit of my first Doctor, Jon Pertwee. There still have to be exciting stories, but Galactic War Doctor is probably over and he can begin the true healing.

Only two questions remain:
1- How many of his new lives did he burn up all at once, blasting those pesky pepper pots out of the sky?
2- Who was that Time Lady who gazed into his eyes so sadly in The End of Time? His mother? His daughter?
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December 30, 2013, 01:50:39 PM
Reply #47

roonwit

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With Moffatt's departure and an older actor playing the new Doctor, I'm looking forward to something more akin to the spirit of my first Doctor, Jon Pertwee. There still have to be exciting stories, but Galactic War Doctor is probably over and he can begin the true healing.
I foresee the role of the new Doctor to be to bring Gallifrey back in such a way that it doesn't restart the time war, and thus he is somewhat of a hunter and somewhat of a peacemaker, but of course his character could vary a lot within these parameters.
Only two questions remain:
1- How many of his new lives did he burn up all at once, blasting those pesky pepper pots out of the sky?
2- Who was that Time Lady who gazed into his eyes so sadly in The End of Time? His mother? His daughter?
I don't think he burnt up any new lives blasting the daleks - if he did need extra regeneration energy I am sure the Time Lords would have given him extra energy to do that. As to the mysterious Time Lady it could have been any relative or a close friend. The Doctor quite possibly has other family on Gallifrey now it hasn't been destroyed.
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January 31, 2014, 10:30:56 PM
Reply #48

BillieMac

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So, here's the latest.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-25926876

Well, that's certainly - minimalist doesn't quite fit, but it's the best word I can think of. It's actually a high-end version of Eccleston's "stripped down" look. (And I don't mean the "stripped down" look Captain Jack had in mind.) Only one more item, the vest, is added to that ensemble.
In Time of the Doctor, when Matt Smith let the bow tie drop to the floor, my boyfriend predicted that there would be no tie.
Overall, it suggests a more business like Doctor. One who Clara would be less amused, but also less frustrated by.

Actually, I don't like it. It looks so - contemporary. It breaks the "50 to 100 years out of date" tradition of Doctor style. (Okay, Tennant's was only about 45 years out of date- an early '60s Mod- but still out of date. And don't even try dating Colin Baker's coat.)
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 10:36:05 PM by BillieMac »
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February 01, 2014, 03:23:00 AM
Reply #49

ss19

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So, here's the latest.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-25926876
When I saw that costume my first reaction was that he looked like a vampire dressed like that!  The red under the black might have something to do with it, though I'm not completely sure.


Actually, I don't like it. It looks so - contemporary. It breaks the "50 to 100 years out of date" tradition of Doctor style. (Okay, Tennant's was only about 45 years out of date- an early '60s Mod- but still out of date. And don't even try dating Colin Baker's coat.)
As for it looking too contemporary, I haven't thought of it like that because the Doctor travels through time and space so much that there shouldn't be any "date" constraints on his costume.  He'll look out of date anyway whenever he's not in his current time.


With Moffatt's departure and an older actor playing the new Doctor, I'm looking forward to something more akin to the spirit of my first Doctor, Jon Pertwee. There still have to be exciting stories, but Galactic War Doctor is probably over and he can begin the true healing.
What do you mean by "Moffatt's departure"?  Steven Moffat hasn't said he was leaving, has he?

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February 01, 2014, 08:52:04 PM
Reply #50

BillieMac

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I seem to have misunderstood something I read or heard. Quotes in magazines aren't always date stamped, and somebody may have been talking about Russell T. Davies. Sorry about that. :ashamed:

I was looking up how the Doctor met his Companions, and it occured to me that most of his incarnations lnherited at least one Companion from his predecessor.
Doctor 2 inherited Ben and Polly. 3 inherited the Brigadier. 4 inherited the Bigadier and Sarah Jane. 5 inherited 4's TARDISload of stray puppies- a.i. Tegan, Adric and Nyssa. 6 inherited Peri, and 7 inherited Mel.
After too long a break in continnuity, 10 inherited Rose from 9, and now 12 has inherited Clara from 11.
That's ten out of thirteen regenerations witnessed by one or more compamions. In some cases it strengthened the bond, while in others it didn't improve the relationship. (6 and Peri- need I say more?)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 08:55:54 PM by BillieMac »
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February 21, 2014, 10:14:08 PM
Reply #51

BillieMac

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Fan cartoons often have a cringe worthy scenario of two characters in the same panel that many fans, myself included, would rather not see on the same planet at the same time: Jamie Macrimmon and Captain Jack Harkness.
In these cartoons Jack is being Jack, and Jamie is looking uncomfortable or shocked, depending on where Jack's hand is. Some have another Companion, usually Leela, Ace or Donna, coming to the boy's rescue. (Funny how it's never Adric in these scenarios. Must be the kilt.)
Two nights ago, I had an epiphany.

Putting aside the insult to Captain Jack, (the man is not a pedophile,) our 20th and 21st century viewpoint may have given us a wrong impression of Jamie Macrimmon.
At 14, he was far from the innocent child we imagine him to be.

Jamie  was a young man of his time- the 18th century. When the Doctor found him, Jamie had been in the thick of an historically decisive battle. Likely a veteran of previous battles, Jamie would have killed more than once, seen at least one hanging, and may not have been a virgin. Someone with that background would be more than capable of protecting himself from a sexual predator.

In his nearly three years in the TARDIS, Jamie received a most precious gift from the Doctor. Freed from the expectations of his society, he reclaimed a piece of the childhood that his time had taken from him at such a young age. Exposed to two socially protected girls, Victoria and Zoe, he saw his lost innocence, and learned to cherish the memory as the Doctor did.

And the Time Lords took it all away from him, dumping him back on the battlefield during the mop-up operation, with no memory of that reclaimed childhood. And we don't really know for sure if he even survived. It's possible that there was less tampering with the Matrix than the 6th Doctor was told, and he really did see Jamie's ultimate fate.
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March 26, 2014, 09:38:31 PM
Reply #52

BillieMac

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I read in TV Week that the re-set on Doctor Who is proceeding apace.
About a month ago I read that the plan is for Capaldi's Doctor to be like Hartnel's, and on that basis I was predicting (but didn't post for some reason) a new Companion within a year- because there's no way Clara's putting up with that overbearing crap.
Remember that teacher at the beginning of Day of the Doctor who came running in as Clara finished her class? I read this week that he's joining the TARDIS crew. Anyone else suspect that Clara's going to pack a student along with them?
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April 01, 2014, 12:54:43 AM
Reply #53

BillieMac

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Sad news yesterday from the official BBC Doctor Who website.

Kate O'Mara, known to us as the Rani, passed away. They didn't give any more information than that, and I don't have any links except the yahoo story- which mostly talked about her role on Dynasty.
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April 18, 2014, 08:40:45 PM
Reply #54

BillieMac

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I was looking at deviantART.com on Wed, and someone figured out exactly how Gallifrey could have two suns. Turns out, it's exactly the same way Tattooine can. The piece is titled "Gallifrey Scienced".

Also, it seems from various official sources, that Gallifrey is a quite cold planet. Oh yeah? Then how come the Doctor's mostly worn so many layers on Earth?
And you can't cite the realities of the British climate. JNT didn't have any qualms about Nicola Bryant freezing her extremities off while Colin Baker remained reasonably warm. (I'm sure she would have been wearing that coat most of the time if he could have gotten away with being the gentleman that he is.)
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May 24, 2014, 04:43:11 AM
Reply #55

nellythemarrow

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Ahahahahahahahaa  :stars: :surprised: :yay: OK it's been so long I actually may have screamed, just a little bit, even though it was 4:30am and others in the house were asleep when I discovered this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYN6ruU672Y

I'm so happy! So, August! That's when series 8 airs. Oh it's been so long. Looking forward to a nice, long series now, however Peter Capaldi and the new stories turn out. I'm more worried about the plots than the new Doctor, though. I think Capaldi seems promising. We're going to need a 12th Doctor emoticon before long! 

 :tardis:


"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us." ~ Gandalf, LotR
My Pottermore username is QuillStone22
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August 23, 2014, 10:42:50 PM
Reply #56

BillieMac

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 :yay: TONIGHT"S THE NIGHT!  :tardis:

The trailers have suggested an interesting story arc for Capaldi's Doctor. Will he be revisiting his past; seeing if his old companions are okay? Only 2&1/4 more hours, and I'll have some hint.

(I had a much longer post on the subject, but forgot to click "stay logged in".  >:(  Well, I'll retype it Monday.)
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August 24, 2014, 03:56:35 AM
Reply #57

nellythemarrow

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(I had a much longer post on the subject, but forgot to click "stay logged in".  >:(  Well, I'll retype it Monday.)
Oh the agony, I know that. I now keep back ups of my posts in progress, copying drafts elsewhere as they're written - paranoid, but helpful! That literally happened to me whilst writing this post but my back up copy rescued it.

I've now seen Deep Breath! ;D In the cinema, no less; that was great fun. Fezes and 5th and 8th Doctor outfits and plenty of Doctor Who t-shirts on show from fans. And now Peter Capaldi is in the house. In general terms I thought the episode very good  :owlse: and Peter Capaldi still very promising, though I feel like I need to watch a few more episodes before I can get to know his Doctor. I'm still holding judgment a little. But even just a re-watch of Deep Breath improved my opinion again and I'm cautiously hopeful we've got ourselves a very good Doctor here. Though Matt Smith still has my heart.  :doctor11:  :love:

Spoilers for Deep Breath:
Spoiler
I so loved that we had a Matt Smith cameo!  :doctor11: I cried my eyes out.  :'(

Anyway, the episode... excellent special effects, I thought and visually it was great. The story, though simple in a way, worked nicely even though we've essentially seen the idea before in The Girl in the Fireplace, as they kept pointing out. But now that they've made this episode it makes you realise how much potential there was for more story from The Girl in the Fireplace. This was even creepier, though. A balloon made of human skin? And the Doctor put a real person's face on Clara's before telling her what it was, now that was a bit gruesome. Donna would've kicked him all the way to the Thames for that...

As for the 12th/13th/14th/1st again Doctor, though he spent most of the episode confused and erratic, as new Doctors sometimes do, I think he made a good impression all things considered. His leaving Clara stuck with the robot humans without any reassurance was harsh, and an indication of a head over heart Doctor, for sure, but I think that will hopefully have been an extreme version of that side of his personality and will soften a little once he's not so all over the place. He still turned up and helped when it mattered most.

The did-he-or-didn't-he issue about whether he killed the Half-Face Man, the captain human robot, or whether he jumped, is a little annoying in a way but reminds me a lot of the Tenth Doctor killing a Sycorax after it wasted his one and only chance for freedom by trying to kill the Doctor. That in a way was more harsh than if Peter Capaldi really did kill Half-Face man, and the Tenth Doctor still turned out to be a real softy. So I'll try not to hold it against him.

That said I felt extremely sorry for the tramp who he scared in the alley (who was played by Elisabeth Sladen's [Sarah Jane Smith actress] real life husband!). He was being deliberately scary in a way, in that scene. Though I'm glad he eventually paid the man for the coat, and with something he loved, too.

This is clearly a more irascible and curt Doctor than we've had in a while, but there's nothing really new about that. And they play that side of him in a funny way at points and I expect they'll do so again. I quite like that he's rude again. And that they've made him so different from the 11th (or 12th or 13th) Doctor... the Matt Smith one.

I liked the side of Clara this Doctor and this episode brought out. I feel like I know her quite a bit better after this one, and Jenna Coleman acted well. I also liked how much the Doctor needled her. Egomaniac control freak indeed. Madam Vastra's provocation of her was a bit over-harsh but was interesting, too. I also enjoyed the Paternoster gang in this one. Vastra and Jenny were good and Strax funnier than normal. I particularly loved it when he threw the newspaper at Clara.

But the new Doctor was really the main thing. Clearly he's feeling a lot underneath all the bewildering and bewildered, furious and excitable outward show. His heartfelt plea asking Clara if she would do as Matt Smith asked and help him was amazing, as was his translation of how the dinosaur was feeling and his wish to keep said dinosaur safe and return her home. That made it far more sad than it could have been otherwise when the dinosaur was killed. I also loved the adventurous fun of his decision that doors were boring and not him, but windows were. Hopefully the promised 'darker' stories coming up will still allow for the odd moment of fun, as I felt that fun was largely lacking in this episode, for all that it had its lighter moments.

OK, predictably long post, but I have to talk about the music... I'm thrilled there was so much new music in this episode! The ticking clock-like theme when the Doctor got out of bed and smelt out the chalk was among my favourite bits, and the race to get to the burnt out dinosaur remains had some good adventure music, too. Later on there were more themes that were interesting as well. Nice music and variations on themes for Clara and the Paternoster gang.

As for the new opening sequence, I heard in advance that it was awfully similar to this fan video from September last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXOBHnWiinY and that's certainly true! The new version of the theme is interesting. Not amazing and almost surprisingly retro in a way, but I quite like it and suspect I'll get more attached to it as the series goes on.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 03:59:22 AM by nellythemarrow »


"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us." ~ Gandalf, LotR
My Pottermore username is QuillStone22
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August 24, 2014, 09:58:53 PM
Reply #58

roonwit

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Spoilers for Deep Breath:
Spoiler
Anyway, the episode... excellent special effects, I thought and visually it was great. The story, though simple in a way, worked nicely even though we've essentially seen the idea before in The Girl in the Fireplace, as they kept pointing out. But now that they've made this episode it makes you realise how much potential there was for more story from The Girl in the Fireplace. This was even creepier, though. A balloon made of human skin? And the Doctor put a real person's face on Clara's before telling her what it was, now that was a bit gruesome. Donna would've kicked him all the way to the Thames for that...
Spoiler
I wonder if more episodes will echo scenes from the Doctor's past, engineered by the mystery person (Missy?) we saw at the end of the episode. Presumably she is also the woman pushing the Doctor and Clara together (though if it was Jo writing this it would probably turn out to be someone else). As the Doctor noticed the echoes from The Girl in the Fireplace I think it might be a continuing feature rather than a one off.
Spoiler
As for the new opening sequence, I heard in advance that it was awfully similar to this fan video from September last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXOBHnWiinY and that's certainly true! The new version of the theme is interesting. Not amazing and almost surprisingly retro in a way, but I quite like it and suspect I'll get more attached to it as the series goes on.
Concerning the new title sequence
Spoiler
According to the BBC website Steven Moffat saw it, liked it, and they worked with the fan to create the new opening titles.
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August 25, 2014, 07:55:05 PM
Reply #59

BillieMac

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Spoiler
I think this was the second longest post-regenerative fugue in the history of the show. 6's lasted right through into 7's,  :lol:.

We're on a well, and had full booking in the cabins- and right before the last act is when the circuit breaker in the pumphouse popped. Talk about rotten timing. So at the start of the next commercial break I go to flip the breaker, and when I get back, I've missed the costume change. :annoyed:
Spoiler
I did catch the phone call, though. I wonder if Matt Smith did that scene while making TotDr, or came back to do it. I suppose whichever it was depends on how long Moffatt trusted him to keep a secret.
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