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Author Topic: Doctor Who: Plot and Theories Discussion  (Read 10235 times)

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August 25, 2014, 09:46:26 PM
Reply #60

roonwit

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Spoiler
I did catch the phone call, though. I wonder if Matt Smith did that scene while making TotDr, or came back to do it. I suppose whichever it was depends on how long Moffatt trusted him to keep a secret.
That is answered in the Fact File for the Deep Breath episode.
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August 25, 2014, 10:30:21 PM
Reply #61

BillieMac

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Spoiler
Aww! :(  The art deco TARDIs was the only one I liked! I thought the other designs were too cluttered. Well, I'll see what I think of the new interior next week.
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August 26, 2014, 05:02:22 PM
Reply #62

siena

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First of all I have to admit something - and please don't alert the British authorities or they might deport me as I am writing  :P - although I have been living in the UK for almost a decade by now, I have never watched a single episode of Dr Who ... until very recently, when the new Deep Breath episode with Peter Capaldi was screened with a Q&A  at my local cinema.

Apart from the fact that the plot was completely bonkers (which I loved, don't worry  :lol:) there were some incredibly strong performances from Capaldi himself and Neve McIntosh and Peter Ferdinando. I could - sort of - see what all the fuss is about. i particularly loved the restaurant scene - it really was bone chilling ..

However, Jenna Coleman with her horribly gone astray attempt at a somewhat Scottish accent (Capaldi must have cringed inwardly), spoilt the whole episode for me. While I loved Capaldi's take on several centuries of fashion development, I felt so sorry for Coleman who had to walk around in that laughable tartan miniskirt towards the end. And not to mention her fringe, that kept getting into her eyes ( I believe that's why she had to screw up her face once in a while ... ;)
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August 26, 2014, 06:21:09 PM
Reply #63

nellythemarrow

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First of all I have to admit something - and please don't alert the British authorities or they might deport me as I am writing  :P - although I have been living in the UK for almost a decade by now, I have never watched a single episode of Dr Who ... until very recently, when the new Deep Breath episode with Peter Capaldi was screened with a Q&A  at my local cinema.
;D  8) Welcome to the party! I hope you stay.

However, Jenna Coleman with her horribly gone astray attempt at a somewhat Scottish accent (Capaldi must have cringed inwardly), spoilt the whole episode for me. While I loved Capaldi's take on several centuries of fashion development, I felt so sorry for Coleman who had to walk around in that laughable tartan miniskirt towards the end. And not to mention her fringe, that kept getting into her eyes ( I believe that's why she had to screw up her face once in a while ... ;)
Er, her accent was a terrible Scottish accent because it wasn't meant to be a Scottish accent :) . In a previous episode last year we found out that Clara - both the character and Jenna Coleman - are from Lancashire. Her accent as Clara and in interviews is the same, I think (though I'm no expert at accents! My sister mocks me when I can't tell them apart), so I guess it must be her normal accent. She's put on a posh English accent and a sort of cockney London accent in the past but for the most it's kind of Received Pronunciation with some Lancashire thrown in. That was stronger than normal this episode, though.

I thought the fringe and tartan skirt a bit silly, too, but I guess it's fashionable? I don't know, fashion is a strange animal to me. She's been stuck wearing it for a couple of episodes because of the way the episodes have connected.

Spoiler
I wonder if more episodes will echo scenes from the Doctor's past, engineered by the mystery person (Missy?) we saw at the end of the episode. Presumably she is also the woman pushing the Doctor and Clara together (though if it was Jo writing this it would probably turn out to be someone else). As the Doctor noticed the echoes from The Girl in the Fireplace I think it might be a continuing feature rather than a one off.
Interesting thought.
Spoiler
They made more of the fact that the Doctor's wearing a face he saw before than I thought they would, as well. Hard to guess what Missy's agenda might be, though. I was a little fed up that we have yet another mysterious woman who's claiming to know a lot about the Doctor and claiming that he loves her. As a mystery it's kind of lost its novelty factor even if it's sure to have a different reason than others. Though of course for new viewers it'll all be new ;D

Concerning the new title sequence
Spoiler
According to the BBC website Steven Moffat saw it, liked it, and they worked with the fan to create the new opening titles.
Wow bet they were happy!

Spoiler
I think this was the second longest post-regenerative fugue in the history of the show. 6's lasted right through into 7's,  :lol:.
... and right before the last act is when the circuit breaker in the pumphouse popped. Talk about rotten timing...
Ahaha poor Colin Baker. And ouch for the timing! :(

Spoiler
I did catch the phone call, though. I wonder if Matt Smith did that scene while making TotDr, or came back to do it. I suppose whichever it was depends on how long Moffatt trusted him to keep a secret.
That is answered in the Fact File for the Deep Breath episode.
I would expect that was more because of convenience than because
Spoiler
they couldn't trust Matt Smith, though. He kept his casting secret, after all. I guess all Doctors are quite good at keeping their mouths shut. I liked one thing that came out in the live Q&A afterwards about how all the Doctor actors give private advice to each other that only Doctors can know and refuse to tell anyone else what that advice is about.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 06:25:28 PM by nellythemarrow »


"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us." ~ Gandalf, LotR
My Pottermore username is QuillStone22
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August 26, 2014, 06:34:21 PM
Reply #64

siena

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If Coleman's accent was meant to be Lancashire, it was even worse  :lol:
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August 26, 2014, 07:29:49 PM
Reply #65

nellythemarrow

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Lol I'm afraid the closest accent to it I know is the Yorkshire one, most of my family are Yorkshire. All I know is that her accent isn't that at least!


"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us." ~ Gandalf, LotR
My Pottermore username is QuillStone22
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August 30, 2014, 10:47:41 PM
Reply #66

BillieMac

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According to her IMDB bio, Jenna was born in Blackpool, but it doesn't say where she grew up. Hope that helps pin down her accent.
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September 01, 2014, 03:12:27 AM
Reply #67

nellythemarrow

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Spoiler level: series 8 episode 2, Into the Dalek  :dalek:

Not sure how to rate this one. I think a high  :owlsa:

Spoiler
The visuals were amazing. The special effects are unbelievably good, I can't believe how far we've come since the series started nine years ago in terms of what they can afford to do. We've come even further since the Fourth Doctor's story The Invisible Enemy in 1977 when it was the Doctor who had tiny people inside him trying to fix him  :doctor4: - the comparison of effects to that story is just crazy. The way Into the Dalek was shot was great as well. Even the explosions were sparkly and different and great to watch.

As for the plot, though, it was very simple and quite to the point. Some good lines but not filled to the brim with them. I liked the Journey Blue character quite a lot and felt sorry for her when the Doctor wouldn't let her come with him. I also felt a lot at the way that Gretchen handled her sacrifice, telling the Doctor her name. But other than that things felt a bit forgettable. I did like that the Dalek story was (for them) quite small-scale. Only one ship in peril.

Going inside the Dalek was a very interesting concept, as was the idea of a 'good' Dalek, but at times it felt a bit... I don't know, not preachy, but... it felt a bit like everything was still centred mostly on the Doctor, whether he's a good man and that this was the point of the episode. But that's fair enough really as it's his second story.

When I first watched the episode I flew into a bit of a tirade about the Doctor's character in this one. I was not happy. Luckily having vented then I think I might be able to be more measured now!

Having said that, I'm still not happy... the word I keep coming back to when I think about what annoys me most in the Doctor in this episode is 'callous'. He seems horribly callous about the fate of the man who shot the inside of the Dalek, accidentally setting off the antibodies. Sure, he couldn't have saved him... but did he have to make a joke about it afterwards? Saying that he was the top layer of protein if they wanted to say a few words was so insensitive. Last episode the Doctor justified his possible murder of Half-Faced Man by saying that those humans were never small to him, so no-one should underestimate how far he would go to save them. If the man who was killed by antibodies isn't small to him then why joke? I guess I can understand the feeding him a battery thing and not warning him, but unlike Gretchen he wasn't given the chance to make last requests.

Perhaps underneath the Doctor is still feeling it all, just not showing it. He seems quite lost when he talks to Clara, maybe even pained. Perhaps he thought living with false hope for a few seconds was kinder than the truth, though that doesn't explain his joke afterwards. But it's still pretty cold in terms of his actions.

Then there's what Rusty the Dalek saw inside the Doctor, of course. I don't like that all the Dalek could see was hatred, that he couldn't see anything else. That seems contrary to the Doctor in the past. Sure, he's hated them a lot. He's often seemed at his most extreme around them. But this is the same man who once couldn't make himself destroy the Daleks before they were created and even acknowledged that they've inadvertently provoked good. I guess the Doctor's lost a lot more at their tentacles since then, but even so... I would hope that's not what defines him. I guess the First Doctor was like this at the start, in a way. Two teachers from Coal Hill School turned him around then. Maybe one (or two!) Coal Hill School teachers might teach him a lot now, too.

In this episode he seemed even more harsh than the Ninth (or 10th? Curse you, Moffat!) :doctor9: Doctor's attempt to kill the Dalek in Dalek. At least in that one he realised how far he had gone and listened to Rose  :rose:. I guess the Doctor listened to Clara (and I like how much he knows he needs her and realises her advice is good for him) but Rusty's chilling message at the end: "YOU ARE A GOOD DALEK," was troubling. We've heard he'd make a good one, but now it's that he is a good one. I hope this isn't the path he'll continue going down because dark Doctor in large doses is annoying, not intriguing, to me. (I wanted to say dark Doctor in drastic doses is distressing, but that just sounded silly ::) ) I was pleased when the more extreme Time Lord Victorious was quickly nipped in the bud.

That was in writer Phil Ford's other co-written Doctor Who episode- Waters of Mars. I thought that ep was amazing, the closest in quality to a movie Doctor Who has ever done; it's just really traumatising to watch  :sofa: :'( . This episode had a little of the angst without all the brilliance, for me.

Let's hope that this Doctor won't be subjected to the fate of poor Colin Baker at least, who, as BillieMac said, spent most of his time on Doctor Who seemingly in a post-regenerative fugue. Muddled, with some of that anger thrown in. Knowing what happened to him I can't believe they'd make the same mistake with Peter Capaldi, though.

Anyway, moving on! Danny Pink: fantastic, can't wait to have more of him! I like that we're seeing more of what Clara's travelling away from, now. The school works better than her babysitting job did. I'm looking forward to seeing what the Doctor will make of him, assuming that they eventually meet. Those scenes brightened the whole episode.

As for the music, I loved it! I actually double checked that Murray Gold did this one, it sounded so different. Very classic Doctor Who, kind of 1980s sci-fi-ish. It was fun. I like the 'heaven' music with Missy, too. She's a bit more intriguing now that the 'heaven' is harder to explain, but I still wish we didn't have another mystery woman. Not entirely sure this one's on the Doctor's side, however, for all her claims he's her boyfriend. The whole thing sounds like a setup to assuage the Doctor's conscience for all the people he's killed/had die for him at the moment, but that doesn't sound complicated enough for Steven Moffat!

I'm looking forward to the next episode. It looks like true, bonkers Mark Gatiss. Could be fun!
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 03:17:36 AM by nellythemarrow »


"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us." ~ Gandalf, LotR
My Pottermore username is QuillStone22
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September 29, 2014, 10:29:08 PM
Reply #68

nellythemarrow

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It's been a while - it's been four episodes, in fact, so, yeah... series 8!

Spoiler level: series 8 episode 3, Robot of Sherwood

I'd probably give this an average of  :owlse: with a couple of  :owlso: moments...

Spoiler
Well this episode is startlingly different to those before and around it. It's sunny, Clara and the Doctor are suddenly very comfortable together and the Doctor is being kind of nice and very funny. Also a little Matt Smith-esque at times  :doctor11: , though I think the Eleventh-or-whatever-it's-meant-to-be Doctor would have acted differently.

I enjoyed the running gag between the Doctor and Robin Hood that the Doctor hates the laughing. There were some brilliant moments there. I loved all the stuff when the Doctor and Robin were chained together. I even liked Ben Miller's amazingly hammy Sheriff of Notingham who had a whiff of Alan Rickman about him. I thought it a bit too dark when he killed a villager, though. Not normally stuff you see on Doctor Who.

Clara was brilliant, as is fast becoming common. As were the costumes, my word I loved Clara's dress!

It was basically a nice, sometimes witty story that wasn't trying to be any bigger than it was and was quite enjoyable and entertaining. Already was finding the 'Promised Land' ongoing theme annoying, though. Was fun them putting a glimpse of Patrick Troughton playing Robin Hood himself at one point. Great music, of course.


Spoiler level: series 8 episode 4, Listen

I would maybe rate this  :owlse:

Spoiler
Some of my family would give it Outstanding, though, I think. I enjoyed it a lot. I particularly liked the Doctor in this one. The bit at the end where Clara forcibly hugged him is just so cute!

I liked the Danny Pink stuff, so promising. That stuff had some of the best moments. I enjoyed Clara being driven to distraction by the Doctor scrambling his memories and giving him a memory of Dan the soldier man.

It was interesting that we revisited the barn and saw the young Doctor. Not quite sure what to think about such a revealing moment of the Doctor's past occurring in a simple, normal episode. I liked that we saw the barn but I kind of wish they hadn't shown so much, though how they could have shown less and still made us realise it was a young Doctor I don't know! But I like mystery in the Doctor's past. Still, it was a good scene.

I find the monster idea quite scary. Still not totally sold on the idea that a kid would have stayed in character, silently wearing a sheet despite two strange adults being in the room. Surely that had to be a monster? But the rest I could believe has less sinister explanations. Or perhaps these beings are just even better at hiding than the Doctor might think.

Anyway a nice episode balancing scary excitement and some good drama.


Spoiler level: series 8 episode 5, Time Heist

This might get a low  :owlse: from me.

Spoiler
This episode had a lot of interesting elements, I thought. I absolutely loved the way it was shot and the effects when changing from one scene to another and the odd zooms, that was great.

I loved the characters of Psi and Salibra. I hope they come back again. I was extremely put out when it seemed like they were killed, particularly as I strongly suspected that the Doctor was the architect already. And I was very glad when they turned up again, even if it was quite odd that Ms Delphox randomly decided those two guards would kill the Doctor and Clara and took the Teller away when it'd been right there and could've killed them.

I thought the Teller was great. Good new monster design and it was easy to feel sympathy for it. The name of it is quite neat as well. But again I found it a bit too much perhaps with the brain turned to soup and the Doctor just explaining away what's happening to Clara and later to Salibra when it looks like it'll happen to her, too. The skull caving in was horrible, as was the 'tear' of brain soup. Scary idea.

I enjoyed the final explanation about why they'd all ended up doing this job and why the Doctor had posed as the architect, as well. The very last moment when the Doctor is gleeful about Clara's date not possibly being as good as robbing an entire bank was quite interesting. A rare moment to realise what he's really thinking, not just to see the front he puts on. It's a relief to know he still cares about Clara, even if it seems sometimes like she's the only one he does care about and not even that much. I can't believe he just did nothing when they split up and the Teller went after her... I know in Robot of Sherwood we established that the Doctor doesn't think of himself as a hero, but really? I could stand a few more heroics from him. Like Psi I kind of feel like picking holes in Clara's continued devotion to him at points. I just hope Clara's right that underneath he's not like that and that at some point we might actually see that caring side of him come out a little. Surely he still cares...

Anyway, it was a good episode and though pace slowed a bit towards the end it was nice seeing the Doctor and company relaxing with a Chinese and a bit of banter, despite the Doctor's professed hatred of that.

Spoiler level: series 8 episode 6: The Caretaker

I think a high  :owlsa: or low  :owlse: for this one.

Spoiler
I think I had too high hopes coming into this episode. I've been excited about what fun might come out of Danny Pink finding out about the Doctor. It was all very good but again sometimes lacking on fun in that area. There was fun in other moments, though, in the Doctor's idea of 'deep cover' and his exasperation with humans and taking a disruptive influence out for a trip. Was somehow quite strange to get a River Song mention at one point but that was nice, too. For all that Peter Capaldi seems like the Doctor for me, I still find it hard to believe he's the same person as David Tennant's and Matt Smith's Doctors.

Clara was good fun again in this episode. I loved her reaction when the Doctor first told her they wouldn't be going on a trip as he's going undercover, and her reopening the TARDIS door making threatening 'I'll be watching you' gestures. She might be climbing a little higher through the ranks of my favourite companions.

I did feel a bit sorry for Danny Pink with her, though. It's hard to gauge how long they've been together at this point, because from our point of view they don't seem to have been going out for all that long but he seems to find it unreasonable that she hasn't spilled her secrets out to him. I bet he hasn't told her about the mystery of his possibly shooting a woman and how that affected him, so why shouldn't she keep the Doctor secret when the Doctor doesn't really want people to know about him and he might not have believed Clara anyway? Danny Pink doesn't even use his born name. I like him, but... really? His ominous warnings about what might happen if the Doctor ever pushes Clara too far aren't reassuring, either. That's pretty much tantamount to a declaration that this will happen very soon. I want the Doctor to get better with the whole not treating people badly thing, not worse! I do like a grumpy Doctor, but this is getting a tad samey for me, now.

Another recurring theme is the increase in violence and gross things this series. I mean, the dismembered, burnt to a crisp arm is well beyond what we've had before, isn't it? Am I just misremembering the horror of previous stories? Not sure that I am. I'm not normally someone who thinks Doctor Who is too scary but this time I think they've crossed the line. Sure we see the policeman apparently OK in the afterlife afterwards, but only quite a while afterwards and as we still don't know what's going on there it's not particularly reassuring. Perhaps for Steven Moffat, knowing how it's all going to turn out is making him misjudge the gruesomeness of some of the imagery? I watch Game of Thrones and things so it's not anything I've not seen before, it's just not what I expect from Doctor Who. I'm wondering if the popularity of Game of Thrones is making the creators of other TV programmes think it's fine to be a little more extreme now. But sometimes it's nice to sit down to something and not see all this imagery that you are either horrified by or desensitised about and I think either way that can have bad consequences. See I'm coming over all Mary Whitehouse-ish now :umbridge: and I don't feel like I've felt this way, this strongly, about it before.

Anyway! I still thought it was a good story. Another fairly low-level plot with more emphasis on the drama but that was OK as the plot and drama were both still good. Again with the good music though I was confused when Amy Pond's music played when Danny Pink was looking in the TARDIS for the first time  ???

And a quick six episodes in, I'm still liking Capaldi's Doctor. Not as much as Ten :doctor10: or Eleven :doctor11: but maybe around the level of Nine :doctor9: . It's not feeling as... homely? Familiar? Settled? Not sure what the right word would be, but it's not feeling as comforting as it has been in the past, watching Doctor Who but change isn't a bad thing and you don't want things getting too settled in a programme like this one.

It's hard to get a grasp on a Doctor who on the one hand easily expresses his annoyance and disdain for others, but on the other conceals most of his emotions, but I feel like a couple of glimpses into what he might be feeling underneath it all, as Clara steadfastly believes, and it'll be OK. I don't feel like we've properly had that since the end of the first episode when he was asking Clara to stay with him. And I doubt we'll be getting it in the next episode, which looks very Waters of Mars ish and not just because of the space suits.


"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us." ~ Gandalf, LotR
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October 16, 2014, 08:13:31 AM
Reply #69

BillieMac

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I'm really not warming to Capaldi's Doctor. The vibe he gives off just feels wrong. Watching Mummy on the Orient Express, it finally hit me.

Spoiler
Valeyard.
"Between your twelfth and final incarnation". Well, despite 10's "Handy" extra regeneration, this is the 12th incarnation.
Oh, he's still the Doctor; it comes out from time to time. But for even the Time Lords to siphon it off and condense it into physical form, the darkness had to come from closer to the surface than the Master implied.
11 felt it coming all along, but he managed to fight it down. Now, it's coming to the surface, and during his next regeneration, the dark impulses of his soul will be drawn out.
I'd like to see that, actually; a dark cloud coming out the same time as the regenerative fire would be a jaw dropper. New Who fans because it's unprecedented; classic Who fans on realizing the meaning.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 08:16:09 AM by BillieMac »
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October 18, 2014, 08:25:51 PM
Reply #70

BillieMac

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Sorry, I meant o fix that before posting, and forgot. I meant to say:
Spoiler
...this is between the 12th and final incarnation.
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October 20, 2014, 08:42:43 PM
Reply #71

BillieMac

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www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/

This could be good for non tech savvy adults, too.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2014, 10:51:08 PM by BillieMac »
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October 25, 2014, 02:32:34 AM
Reply #72

BillieMac

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I think she's the Supreme Intelligence. I think she'd better be the Supreme Intelligence, because my boyfriend has suggested she could be the Mistress!

Not the Mistress, Moffat, NOT - THE - MISTRESS!! Because I don't want a female Doctor. Something about him has to remain constant, and I want him to remain a beta male hero. You gave me a cringing scream with that line about the Corsair.
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November 06, 2014, 08:19:36 AM
Reply #73

BillieMac

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I missed Saturday's showing, but have just watched the rerun.
Not the Mistress, Moffat, NOT - THE - MISTRESS!!.
@#$%&*@#$%&*.

The episode itself was very well done. I'm still not warming to this Doctor, and I've been cooling to Clara, but there was some of the Smith era Clara here.
I liked the humourous nod to Capaldi's former role (swearing on the psychic paper), and loved the tribute to The Invasion.

Right now, I'm enjoying a 50th special that hadn't aired here at the time; the one where Peter Davison talked to the companion actors.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 07:55:43 PM by BillieMac »
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November 09, 2014, 03:28:35 AM
Reply #74

BillieMac

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Ooookaaayyy. Mega meta ending, there.

I think Moffatt and some other production people need to step back a bit. There's been a bit too much fanfic in some episodes; this one a case in point.
Still pissed about the Mistress, but this was a great episode otherwise. The first and the last were great; the rest of the season- meh.
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