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Author Topic: Chapter 6  (Read 731 times)

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April 21, 2013, 05:43:35 PM

HealerOne

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Chapter Six:  Out of the Frying Pan into the Fire

Bilbo finds he has come out on the other side of the Misty Mountains. He makes the choice to go back and rescue his companions. Wearing the ring, he comes across the arguing group of dwarves and Gandalf. They are arguing about trying to find Bilbo. When Bilbo reveals himself they all are impressed, and just as Gandalf had predicted, they look upon Bilbo with new respect. However they aren’t out of trouble yet, because as night falls, the Goblins will soon be looking for them. Off they trek and eventually (with Bilbo's stomach rumbling) stumble into a moonlit clearing. However wolves are near and Gandalf sends them climbing up the trees for safety. Poor Bilbo requires assistance from Dori again to get up the tree. The evil wolves – Wargs – pour into the clearing and surround the trees. They are waiting for the Goblins to come. Gandalf tries to rid the area of the Wargs by bombing them with fiery pinecones. The sound of the howling, set-on-fire Wargs brings out both the Giant Eagles and the Goblins. The Goblins set the trees on fire and dance around, singing about roasting the group in the trees. However, the Lord of the Eagles is Gandalf’s friend, so the eagles fly away with Gandalf and the Dwarves. Poor little Bilbo barely makes it out by grabbing Dori’s legs. The eagles fly them to their roosting nest. They help them to feast by providing a fire and food. Gandalf then is able to negotiate with the Lord of the Eagles to fly them part of the way to their destination.

~ Bilbo gets to the other side of the mountain and finds his friends easily. He  escapes from the Wargs and Goblins by a hair's breath!  Do you have the sense that it is Providence, dumb luck, or great decision making that allows all these lucky coincidences to happen?

~ As great a magician as Gandalf appears to be, he does seem to have his limits. How does this affect the story? How does this affect the dependence of the traveling group on him?

~ What were your impressions of Dori?  Have your thoughts on him changed since the beginning of the tale?
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 06:26:57 PM by atschpe »


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April 26, 2013, 09:21:43 PM
Reply #1

Evreka

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I liked this chapter too, although there are a few incidents in it that are quite surprising plot wise.

I like how Bilbo reaches the conclusion that he has to go back and search for his friends at an earlier point than the 13 quarreling dwarves, who must have had more time to reach the point in the discussion where we start to overhear them. So Bilbo is growing into a hero, faster than they are...  :P I also quite enjoy the trick he plays on the dwarves, by using the Ring. It's about time they get a higher opinion of him!  :(

It's great to read the summary, and realise that it is Wargs who apprehend them in the English original. In the Swedish translation they are simply followed by wolves - though apparently not ordinary such. Is Warg an alternative word for "wolf" (ie the usual animal) or does it mean something else? I can't find it in my English dictionary at all, so I'm thinking it might be a creature from folklore or something...?

Back to the story, I think it makes little sense of this company to run for the trees: how is it supposed to help even without the Wargs creating a fire? Once in the trees, they are all stuck... Further, if Gandalf is so great with all sorts of fire magic, how come he can not use magic to make the fire round up the Wargs and Goblins instead of their trees? This particular part of the chapter makes less sense to me than them being rescued by the eagles!  :fredgeorge:

After the dramatic ending of chapter 4, it was a much happier note to leave little Bilbo sleeping in peace, well fed and safe, high up on the eagles cliff, than left wounded in a dark Goblin tunnel as last week.  :whew:  :ginny:

~ Bilbo gets to the other side of the mountain and finds his friends easily. He  escapes from the Wargs and Goblins by a hair's breath!  Do you have the sense that it is Providence, dumb luck, or great decision making that allows all these lucky coincidences to happen?
I'd say it is mostly "sheer dumb luck" to quote a favourite Professor of mine ( :mcgonagall: in PS/SS) but I must admit that I don't have a clue what "Providence" mean?  :crabbegoyle: And my dictionary refuses to help me...  :ron:
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 09:25:28 PM by Evreka »
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April 28, 2013, 03:51:59 AM
Reply #2

HealerOne

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~ Bilbo gets to the other side of the mountain and finds his friends easily. He  escapes from the Wargs and Goblins by a hair's breath!  Do you have the sense that it is Providence, dumb luck, or great decision making that allows all these lucky coincidences to happen?
I'd say it is mostly "sheer dumb luck" to quote a favourite Professor of mine ( :mcgonagall: in PS/SS) but I must admit that I don't have a clue what "Providence" mean?  :crabbegoyle: And my dictionary refuses to help me...  :ron:

Dictionary.com  to the rescue!
prov·i·dence:

1.
( often initial capital letter  ) the foreseeing care and guidance of God or nature over the creatures of the earth.
2.
( initial capital letter  ) God, especially when conceived as omnisciently directing the universe and the affairs of humankind with wise benevolence.
3.
a manifestation of divine care or direction.


So since the initial capital letter is used the implication of the question is whether divine guidance is the reason that Bilbo has all this luck. Still think your answer would be 'dumb luck'?

Since Tolkien was a devoted Christian,  many interpret all the 'luck' encountered in this story as being his way (Tolkien's) of confirming the existence of a divine presence that is watching over each person's life journey. One could also say that this is positive energy or good Karma that is bouncing back to the good and faithful Bilbo.... The existence of all the coincidences and luck that occur in the story seems to me a bit more than just 'dumb luck.'
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May 08, 2013, 04:26:41 AM
Reply #3

ss19

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It's great to read the summary, and realise that it is Wargs who apprehend them in the English original. In the Swedish translation they are simply followed by wolves - though apparently not ordinary such. Is Warg an alternative word for "wolf" (ie the usual animal) or does it mean something else? I can't find it in my English dictionary at all, so I'm thinking it might be a creature from folklore or something...?
The English original says "wolves" also.  But in one place it says that these particular evil wolves were referred to as Wargs in that area.  I'll quote the first mention of the name in this chapter here:  "But even the wild Wargs (for so the evil wolves over the Edge of the Wild were named) cannot climb tree."


For me, the most interesting part of this chapter is that Bilbo kept the magic ring a secret from the dwarves and from Gandalf.  When he told his story of what happened in the tunnel without mentioning the ring, it made him sound much more capable and heroic than he really was.  In reality, he would not have gotten out of that tunnel alive without that ring, I don't think.  One possibility is that he knows subconsciously that he did something wrong taking that ring from Golum, therefore he wasn't anxious to tell the world about it.  But now he has to tell lies to cover up his first wrong-doing, which is often what happens in real life when one mistake leads you down a slippery slope.
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May 08, 2013, 08:23:02 PM
Reply #4

Evreka

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The English original says "wolves" also.  But in one place it says that these particular evil wolves were referred to as Wargs in that area.  I'll quote the first mention of the name in this chapter here:  "But even the wild Wargs (for so the evil wolves over the Edge of the Wild were named) cannot climb tree."
Ah, thanks a lot for clearing that up, ss19:bear:


For me, the most interesting part of this chapter is that Bilbo kept the magic ring a secret from the dwarves and from Gandalf.  When he told his story of what happened in the tunnel without mentioning the ring, it made him sound much more capable and heroic than he really was.  In reality, he would not have gotten out of that tunnel alive without that ring, I don't think.  One possibility is that he knows subconsciously that he did something wrong taking that ring from Golum, therefore he wasn't anxious to tell the world about it.  But now he has to tell lies to cover up his first wrong-doing, which is often what happens in real life when one mistake leads you down a slippery slope.
Another possibility is of course that he was secretive of it because he feels that he wants to possess it - much as Gollum wants to possess it, and others later....

Although I DO believe that he felt ashamed of how he won it, I also think he wanted to come off a bit more capable to the dwarves. So maybe a combination of the two?
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May 11, 2013, 03:36:20 AM
Reply #5

HealerOne

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In chapter 5 I talked about the Alchemical Operation of Dissolution. Now, in this chapter, the first part of the Operation of Separation begins. As the party slides down that mountain they are being 'filtered' and are starting to separate from the goblins, but of course - "out of the frying pan into the fire" occurs! They continue to separate from the earth that is weighing them down. The wolves (Wargs) appear and the party climbs the trees to separate themselves from these evils as well as the earth itself.  Gandalf brings in fire to keep the wolves at bay, but when the Goblins appear the element of Fire is turned on them and they again are threatened with roasting. This time the element of Air is used as the filter that separates them from the dangers of the Goblins.  The large Eagles bear them away to their roost high in the sky. Taking them away from the 'blackened earth'. (All symbols of the Operation of Separation.) Bilbo continues to have doubts and difficulty making the 'get away' - it's like he fears  separation with something that was known, but unsafe -  to something that is unknown but safe. Even when he is safe Bilbo dreams of his old life, so Separation has not been completed.
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