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Author Topic: Chapter Five - The Dementor  (Read 1283 times)

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March 02, 2014, 08:50:50 PM

JaneMarple9

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Chapter Five: The Dementor
(Chap Summary by twiddlethosedials )



Fan Art by Vildamir


Time for the annual mad dash to King’s Cross Station - and what a mad dash it is. Arthur’s clearly decided to clue Harry in about Sirius Black, but Harry doesn’t actually promise not to go looking for him. The Trio settle into the only empty - sort of - spot on the Hogwarts Express, a compartment where Professor R.J. Lupin is sleeping. And sleeping. And sleeping. Eventually, Neville and Ginny wake him up, just in time for the Dementor to cast a chill over the carriage, sucking all the happiness out of the air and sending Harry into something of a fit.

A few questions to get you started:

1) Who set off the Sneakoscope in the carriage? Why did it go off?

2) Dumbledore’s speech makes it clear he’s no fan of the Dementors. Why did he permit them at school?

3) What’s the significance of the chocolate fighting off the effect of the Dementors?



"There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with a really big library"
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March 03, 2014, 09:39:56 PM
Reply #1

roonwit

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2) Dumbledore’s speech makes it clear he’s no fan of the Dementors. Why did he permit them at school?
I think Dumbledore recognized he needed some sort of guard on Hogwarts and the Dementors were the best the Ministry were prepared to offer. The Dementors would feel they had some sort claim in the hunt for Sirius, and the Ministry would feel they had to accommodate them to some extent, but it would also mean they wouldn't have to commit as many resources to the hunt themselves. It would be hard to guard all the ways in and out of Hogwarts without Ministry help (even the magical defences in HBP probably needed Ministry help to set up) so I think Dumbledore agreed to the Dementors as the least worst option.
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March 04, 2014, 04:17:52 AM
Reply #2

wordsaremagic

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No doubt in my mind--the rat set off the sneakoscope.
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March 04, 2014, 02:21:05 PM
Reply #3

siena

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I also think that Dumbledore has limited power to object certain interferences from the Ministry. We see in PoA that he is able to convince the governors that Hagrid has no part in the Buckbeak/Draco  incidence, but that he has no power to overrule them when Lucius Malfoy decided it would be a good idea to undermine Hagrid by killing his beloved hippogriff. I think the Ministry and the commmitee of Hogwarts governors are in Malfoy's hand - and I suspect that Malfoy probably thought it a good idea to use dementors as guards, and Dumbledore couldn't do much about it. I agree that it is also a question of money - positioning Aurors at the gates would presumably be much more expensive, and the Ministry would object to that.

We see in HBP that the Ministry has no choice but to use Aurors - but this is only because the dementors are averse to working for the Ministry.


As for the dementors and the chocolate as a drug against the effects - I find that very questionable. As I recall, Rowling compared the effects dementors have on the human mind to the effects of depression. Now, depression is a serious mental illness that cannot possibly be cured by chocolate. It does raise serotonin levels but only minimally.  So in a way, in my opinion,  she undermines the effect of the dementors by saying it could be cured with chocolate, which is quite unfortunate, as the rest of her description (they make you feels as though you'll never be happy again) certainly fits in with the outline of clinical depression.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 06:00:56 PM by siena »
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March 04, 2014, 10:19:42 PM
Reply #4

HealerOne

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Oh dear, Siena! I do respect your point here. Clinical Depression is a serious problem not cured by running out and eating a face full of chocolate. That said - I have always loved  :hearts:  the idea that chocolate was a fix for getting rid of the effects of the Dementor. Therefore I recommend chocolate - especially dark chocolate all the time for friends having a bad day! (I mean do we really have to have an excuse to eat chocolate? Getting rid of Dementors seem just as good a reason as any other!) As I understand it - Depression ranges in seriousness from mild, temporary episodes of sadness to severe, persistent depression. Doctors use the term "clinical depression" to describe the more severe form of depression. So using Chocolate to lift some of the effects of the less severe types of depression is not all that ineffectual - for those who are not clinically depressed.

Let's keep in mind that JKR tells us through Lupin that The Patronus Spell which is cast by digging deep within yourself to think of something very happy is the cure for The Dementors. I think that introspection, i.e. psychological counseling, is what many people suffering from depression need. But you are right that severe depression is often caused by a chemical imbalance and requires drug therapy in order to re-balance the brains chemicals. (But then again - in the case of a magical person - maybe Chocolate carries a chemical that effects their magical brain chemistry?)  :-\ :-\
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March 13, 2014, 12:22:04 PM
Reply #5

atschpe

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To me chocolate is a little helping boost – after the attack happened. So if you see a dementor swoop your way there's no point in grabbing a chocolate bar and just sit there and think nibbling the bar will make the dementor disappear. The chocolate is there to counter the residue of the feeling, nothing more. A little pick me up if you will.
I agree with HealerOne, the patronus is the actual "medicine" against the dementor (or depression) and that is something that is not only magical but can actually be applied in the real world. Of course not in the sense of brandishing a stick and conjuring up a light shield or animal. Rather in working with positive memories to bring light into the individuals perception of their world, as well as using  mental "shield" techniques (for want of a better word) when dealing with draining or unpleasant situations.
"Of course it is all in your head, but why on Earth should that mean it isn't real?" ~Dumbledore (DH)
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April 16, 2014, 06:22:26 AM
Reply #6

Evreka

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1) Who set off the Sneakoscope in the carriage? Why did it go off?
This is the first time (since Harry got it anyway), that the Sneakoscope is in near vicinity to a certain rat, who is anything but trustworthy.

The fact that it went off in this carriage, however, meant that when I first read this book I was convinced "Lupin" was someone else than he appeared to be, and I suspected him of being Sirius in disguise. Not least as he could fight off the Dementor so easily...  :hmm: Which of course meant I was sure Sirius' agenda differed from what it was believed to be...


2) Dumbledore’s speech makes it clear he’s no fan of the Dementors. Why did he permit them at school?
I think he had too, the 12 Governors might all have been in favour for instance. Or maybe he also agrees for Harry's safety's sake, thinking they might help keep him outside - that he wouldn't even come near the place if it was known to be surrounded by Dementors?


3) What’s the significance of the chocolate fighting off the effect of the Dementors?
Well IRL choccolate is proven to raise people's spirits to some extent, so I love that she's built on that. :)


This has to be one of the funniest described scenes on the Hogwarts Express ever! I just LOVE this wonderful part of the book, where you clearly see what goes on in the pitch dark cabin:
Quote from: GOF Chapter 5
"'What's going on?" said Ron's voice from behind Harry.
"Ouch!" gasped Hermione. "Ron, that was my foot!"
Harry felt his way back to his seat.
"D'you think we've broken down?"
"Dunno..."
There was a squeaking sound, and Harry saw the dim black outline of Ron, wiping a patch clean on the window and peering out.
"There's something moving out there," Ron said. "I think people are coming aboard...."
The compartment door suddenly opened and someone fell painfully over Harry's legs.
"Sorry -- d'you know what's going on? -- Ouch -- sorry
"Hullo, Neville," said Harry, feeling around in the dark and pulling Neville up by his cloak.
"Harry? Is that you? What's happening?"
"No idea -- sit down --"
There was a loud hissing and a yelp of pain; Neville had tried to sit on Crookshanks.  :crookshanks:
"I'm going to go and ask the driver what's going on," came Hermione's voice. Harry felt her pass him, heard the door slide open again, and then a thud and two loud squeals of pain.
"Who's that?"
"Who's that?"
"Ginny?"
"Hermione?"
"What are you doing?"
"I was looking for Ron --" "Come in and sit down --"
"Not here!" said Harry hurriedly. "I'm here!"
"Ouch!" said Neville.
"Quiet!" said a hoarse voice suddenly.
The confusion and funny results as they try to sit down in seats they don't see and landing on top of each other.... It's brilliant I think!  :lol:  :fredgeorge:


After arriving at Hogwarts, this part suddenly leaped out from the page towards me:
Quote from:  GOF Chapter 5
Professor Snape, ... was staring along the staff table at Professor Lupin. ..., but even Harry, who hated Snape, was startled at the expression twisting his thin, sallow face. it was beyond anger: it was loathing. Harry knew that expression only too well; it was the look Snape wore every time he set eyes on Harry.

(My Italic.) By now we know that Snape hates Harry because he looks like James, so this must be the first THIPS indicating that Remus and James knew each other and meant the same thing to Snape...


Harry claims that he doesn't go looking for trouble, but that trouble finds him. Do you agree?


One thing that I don't quite get is why Neville had to tell Draco that Harry passed out?  :annoyed: Shouldn't he be more loyal to Harry than that? And telling Draco of all people?  :mcgonagall2:


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April 16, 2014, 07:03:05 PM
Reply #7

siena

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It doesn't say that Neville told Draco directly. I can't imagine him doing that.  It is more likely that Draco simply  overheard Neville talking about the incident.

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April 16, 2014, 09:04:30 PM
Reply #8

Evreka

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It doesn't say that Neville told Draco directly. I can't imagine him doing that.  It is more likely that Draco simply  overheard Neville talking about the incident.
Well, Neville is seen jumping out of one of the thestral driven carriages, and after him comes Draco who is delightedly having a go at Harry. Seeing as the entire trio went with Harry in another carriage, Lupin in yet another one, the only two who might have told Draco are Neville and Ginny. And of those we know that Neville was in the same carriage as Draco.

Now, I didn't mean that Neville delightedly informed Draco about it; just that the people in the carriage discussed the Dementors and Neville talked about what happened in  "his" compartment. Still, he must have been aware of Draco being in that carriage and yes, I do think he could have kept his mouth shut about that detail, seeing how much Harry and the trio has helped him in the past. :(
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April 17, 2014, 12:22:15 AM
Reply #9

roonwit

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It doesn't say that Neville told Draco directly. I can't imagine him doing that.  It is more likely that Draco simply  overheard Neville talking about the incident.
Well, Neville is seen jumping out of one of the thestral driven carriages, and after him comes Draco who is delightedly having a go at Harry.
We don't see Neville getting out of the thestral driven carriages, nor do we see Draco doing so. I also think that Neville was telling someone (Dean or Seamus perhaps), and Draco overheard.
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April 17, 2014, 04:56:47 AM
Reply #10

Evreka

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It doesn't say that Neville told Draco directly. I can't imagine him doing that.  It is more likely that Draco simply  overheard Neville talking about the incident.
Well, Neville is seen jumping out of one of the thestral driven carriages, and after him comes Draco who is delightedly having a go at Harry.
We don't see Neville getting out of the thestral driven carriages, nor do we see Draco doing so. I also think that Neville was telling someone (Dean or Seamus perhaps), and Draco overheard.
True, I just checked the book again. Draco does name Longbottom as his source though.

But you and siena are both right that he could have overheard. I've still understood it as though it was said in a shared carriages though...  :hmm: Although that does seem very odd... Why would Neville choose to ride with Draco, of all people... You're probably right.  :whew: That's bothered me for years...
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