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Author Topic: Chapter Ten - The Marauder's Map  (Read 1833 times)

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March 20, 2014, 08:05:49 PM

JaneMarple9

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Chapter Ten: The Marauder’s Map
(Chap Summary by twiddlethosedials )



Fan Art by PhoenixFuryBane


Harry spends a miserable weekend in the hospital wing before returning to class to find Malfoy’s taken his bandages off and Lupin’s returned to teaching. They don’t have to do the essay after all. Even better, Lupin promises to teach Harry how to fend off the Dementors so he can keep playing Quidditch. The next Hogsmeade weekend comes with a surprise for Harry - an enchanted map of Hogwarts, given to him by Fred and George, who realize his need is greater than theirs. He uses the map to get to Hogsmeade, where he hears another Christmas surprise - Sirius Black sold his parents to Voldemort, and worse than that - he’s Harry’s godfather.

A few questions to get you started:

1) How the heck does that map work? Holy moly, that thing is cool.

2) Why didn’t the Potters make Dumbledore or someone else the secret-keeper? Wouldn’t it have been obvious to anyone on the outside to target Black?

3) Why doesn’t Hermione turn Harry (or at least the map) in?



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March 21, 2014, 09:32:24 PM
Reply #1

roonwit

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2) Why didn’t the Potters make Dumbledore or someone else the secret-keeper? Wouldn’t it have been obvious to anyone on the outside to target Black?
James is very trusting of his friends, so it wouldn't matter if people could work out who the Secret Keeper was as he would trust Sirius to keep it regardless.
3) Why doesn’t Hermione turn Harry (or at least the map) in?
It is loyalty to Harry. She might encourage him to give up the map, but she isn't going to go behind his back unless she thinks he is in real danger, and the arguments that Sirius couldn't use the extra secret passages the map shows are enough to convince her that the danger from them isn't great.
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March 26, 2014, 12:12:50 AM
Reply #2

paint it Black

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1) How the heck does that map work? Holy moly, that thing is cool.

I do not know exactly how the map works, but it is very impressive magic!  :owlso: I can't help but note that the title on the map under the authors' names says, "Purveyors of Aids to Magical Mischief Makers".  This sounds very Fred-and-George-like to me!  :fredgeorge: I have to wonder whether the Marauders ever created any more "Aids", and if they ever (intentionally) shared them with any other mischief makers.  I also wonder if they might have considered producing items like this as Fred and George did, had the war not changed their lives completely.  :'(

2) Why didn’t the Potters make Dumbledore or someone else the secret-keeper? Wouldn’t it have been obvious to anyone on the outside to target Black?
James is very trusting of his friends, so it wouldn't matter if people could work out who the Secret Keeper was as he would trust Sirius to keep it regardless.
I agree.  I'm thinking of the point in DH where Lupin tells Harry that he reminds him of James, "who would have regarded it as the height of dishonor to mistrust his friends." (Ch. 5)  Still, I think that not choosing Dumbledore was a youthful mistake on the part of both James and Sirius.  James knew that it would be impossible for Sirius to give him up, but if they were going to impulsively change their choice of secret-keeper to Peter ... well, why not go with someone who is practically infallible if they were going to change their choice from Sirius?  These were all still very young men who might be prone to overconfidence and making decisions without thinking them all the way through.  If, instead of blindly trusting Sirius' suggestion to use Peter, James had stopped to think, This is the life of my wife and child, shouldn't I choose the wizard who will absolutely not fall against Voldemort?, things would have turned out very differently indeed.


3) Why doesn’t Hermione turn Harry (or at least the map) in?

I have to say that this is one of the few places in the series where I instantly reacted exactly as Ron did.  Is Hermione crazy??  Turn in something that valuable??  I'm a little surprised that she could not see beyond how it was used for mischief-making and see that it could be used to locate Sirius if he were within the castle.

Aside from the Marauder's Map itself, one of the things I adore about this chapter, so much so that it changed my outlook on the entire series at the time, was the introduction of some delicious BACKSTORY.  :yay: Holy smokes, Sirius Black was Harry's dad's best friend!!!  :o I can remember the delightful shock upon reading that for the first time.  This Just Got Interesting!!!  Up until this point, the series for me had been some really neat books about a wizarding boy and his daring adventures against an evil wizard.  Learning more about Harry's parents -- their wedding, their friends, their murder -- made the whole series deepen for me.  Learning what happened to Harry right after his parents were killed was fascinating.  :reading:

I still wonder about something here though (and no, I'm not going to bring up the missing hours until Hagrid arrives at the Dursleys :P).  Like Hagrid, I'm confused why Sirius tells him to take his motorbike to deliver Harry, and says that he won't be needing it anymore.  I wonder what Sirius' plan was after he left the Potter's.  Surely he wanted to track down Peter, but then what?  Why would he no longer need the bike?  Did he intend to murder Peter and turn himself in afterwards?  Did he intend to try to infiltrate Voldemort's defenses to find Peter, and that the bike would be to large and loud to be useful?  I wonder, after he found that James and Lily were dead, what kind of outcome did Sirius intend for that evening?  :hmm:

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March 31, 2014, 06:29:38 PM
Reply #3

siena

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paint it Black, March 26, 2014

       

I still wonder about something here though (and no, I'm not going to bring up the missing hours until Hagrid arrives at the Dursleys :P).  Like Hagrid, I'm confused why Sirius tells him to take his motorbike to deliver Harry, and says that he won't be needing it anymore.  I wonder what Sirius' plan was after he left the Potter's.  Surely he wanted to track down Peter, but then what?  Why would he no longer need the bike?  Did he intend to murder Peter and turn himself in afterwards?  Did he intend to try to infiltrate Voldemort's defenses to find Peter, and that the bike would be to large and loud to be useful?  I wonder, after he found that James and Lily were dead, what kind of outcome did Sirius intend for that evening?  :hmm:


                                             -----------------------------

I think Sirius suspected  at that point that he would get caught and couldn't prove that he wasn't Secret Keeper any more. Sirius anticipated Peter disappearing, which meant that he, Sirius, would be prime suspect. Just think how easily Peter is able to disguise himself - a little rat, gone in a matter of seconds, nobody would ever be any the wiser. It's very easy for Peter to fake his death and disappear - it would almost have worked for him again more than a decade later. Well, in a way it did work again - he got away once more
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 06:33:53 PM by siena »
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April 03, 2014, 06:18:36 PM
Reply #4

HealerOne

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Of all the magical objects in the HP world, the Marauders Map is the coolest! Every time I get to the part where the map is described, it almost gives me goosebumps! I am ever in awe how the whole castle is there on the map and all the little labels for the people are there. That really is magical! I would imagine that the map somehow shows you what you want to know - sort of like the RoR appears to fill your needs. I wonder that the map is sort of holographic - changing to each floor as you turn it slightly?  It also is so cool how it gives hints to Harry as to how to open the One Eyed Witch's hump. Very, very cool. I can't imagine how the Marauders figured out how to make such an object. The four of then must have been powerfully magical!
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April 03, 2014, 11:58:26 PM
Reply #5

paint it Black

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paint it Black, March 26, 2014

      I still wonder about something here though (and no, I'm not going to bring up the missing hours until Hagrid arrives at the Dursleys :P).  Like Hagrid, I'm confused why Sirius tells him to take his motorbike to deliver Harry, and says that he won't be needing it anymore.  I wonder what Sirius' plan was after he left the Potter's.  Surely he wanted to track down Peter, but then what?  Why would he no longer need the bike?  Did he intend to murder Peter and turn himself in afterwards?  Did he intend to try to infiltrate Voldemort's defenses to find Peter, and that the bike would be to large and loud to be useful?  I wonder, after he found that James and Lily were dead, what kind of outcome did Sirius intend for that evening?  :hmm:

                                             -----------------------------

I think Sirius suspected  at that point that he would get caught and couldn't prove that he wasn't Secret Keeper any more. Sirius anticipated Peter disappearing, which meant that he, Sirius, would be prime suspect. Just think how easily Peter is able to disguise himself - a little rat, gone in a matter of seconds, nobody would ever be any the wiser. It's very easy for Peter to fake his death and disappear - it would almost have worked for him again more than a decade later. Well, in a way it did work again - he got away once more

Hmmm... I think Sirius felt that he could evade discovery once he went into hiding after the Fidelius Charm was performed, so I'm not sure that he would feel that it is inevitable the he would be caught now.  And while it is true that Peter has an expert disguise, Sirius was definitely going after him regardless once he discovered what Peter had done (he does say later that he's been waiting for twelve years to kill Peter).  I think he wasn't going to rest until Peter had paid for what he'd done.  So perhaps you are right that this quest would make him more vulnerable to capture, though I don't think he planned (at that point) on giving up his freedom so easily.  So to answer one of my own original questions  ;D, I think Sirius just imagined that he'd be living underground (not necessarily literally :) ) trying to find Peter, and that the bike would just be too loud and cumbersome to take with him.  In the unlikely event that Peter had actually been brought to justice, Sirius could always have retrieved his bike from Hagrid.  :hagridbike:

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April 05, 2014, 12:53:55 AM
Reply #6

roonwit

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Like Hagrid, I'm confused why Sirius tells him to take his motorbike to deliver Harry, and says that he won't be needing it anymore.  I wonder what Sirius' plan was after he left the Potter's.  Surely he wanted to track down Peter, but then what?  Why would he no longer need the bike?  Did he intend to murder Peter and turn himself in afterwards?  Did he intend to try to infiltrate Voldemort's defenses to find Peter, and that the bike would be to large and loud to be useful?  I wonder, after he found that James and Lily were dead, what kind of outcome did Sirius intend for that evening?  :hmm:
I think Sirius is in part giving the bike to Hagrid so he can transport Harry (he probably bought the bike to carry Harry away). Once he gives up on taking Harry, the bike is of less use to him, and it would probably be easy to hide from the authorities or find Peter without it.
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April 27, 2014, 03:36:07 PM
Reply #7

HealerOne

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I was listening to this chapter the other night and just had to come in here to comment on one of the funniest lines in all of HP. It cracks me up every time I read/hear it. It's when Wood comes in to the hospital wing to talk to Harry. Wood tells Harry " (in a hollow, dead sort of voice) that he didn't blame him in the slightest." This play on words in reference to Wood's name is hilarious to me. JKR just slips that little word play in there during a fairly sad part of the book. It reminds us too that Wood's real feelings are that he is defeated and considers himself 'deadwood' since he was part of a losing team - caused by Harry's carelessness of losing consciousness when the Dementors were about. (Makes Wood a pretty Hollow character doesn't it?) The whole idea of Wood saying those words with that flat sort of tone tells us that his words may say he doesn't blame Harry, but his voice does.  I have to say it's great writing and makes for a really fun read.
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April 27, 2014, 03:48:03 PM
Reply #8

siena

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I would not call Oliver Wood a hollow character. He is a very ambitious Quidditch person, who aims at a career in the field as we learn later on. Surely being the Captain of a winning school team would make a difference to his CV. When McGonagall first appointed Harry, he though his dreams had come true. Then all sort of unfortunate circumstances prevented a Cup win for his team. This must have been extremely frustrating.

Yet, here he is, having lost again due to unfortunate circumstances. And yet he manages to pull himself together enough to assure Harry that he doesn't blame him. Instead of being hollow, this shows quite a lot of grit in my opinion.  He needs this as a team leader, to be sure, but it still shows that he really deserves the position in my opinion.

« Last Edit: April 27, 2014, 03:59:06 PM by siena »
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April 28, 2014, 04:25:41 PM
Reply #9

HealerOne

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I would not call Oliver Wood a hollow character. He is a very ambitious Quidditch person, who aims at a career in the field as we learn later on. Surely being the Captain of a winning school team would make a difference to his CV. When McGonagall first appointed Harry, he though his dreams had come true. Then all sort of unfortunate circumstances prevented a Cup win for his team. This must have been extremely frustrating.

Well my opinion of Wood certainly didn't go up when a few chapters back he was more worried about Harry not having access to this fantastic broom, than he was about Harry possibly being killed by his evil enemy. That shows a character that is being very selfish and short sighted in my opinion.  That he would be more worried about his CV than the safety of his players is crazy to me. (And McGonagall seemed to agree with me on that!) It just doesn't seem like that is a characteristic I would treasure in a leader. He just seems like one of those single minded individuals that thinks a sport is more important than life itself.


Yet, here he is, having lost again due to unfortunate circumstances. And yet he manages to pull himself together enough to assure Harry that he doesn't blame him. Instead of being hollow, this shows quite a lot of grit in my opinion.  He needs this as a team leader, to be sure, but it still shows that he really deserves the position in my opinion.

My opinion is that his apology was hollow. It was said in a tone that had no force behind it, as if he knew the words to say but could not say them with conviction. That's why I find the text so funny because it reveals the true character of Wood in an understated way and without an outright statement that he was being a git in this instance. Does this mean that as a character he was Hollow? Maybe, but to be fair he does rally himself and becomes a better leader later in the book. (But still pretty single-minded and selfish in my opinion.) In the end I was glad that Wood was able to parlay his winning of the House Cup into a job on a professional Quidditch team. That's probably where he belonged given his love of the game itself. 
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April 28, 2014, 04:44:53 PM
Reply #10

siena

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Well, the thing is that Harry wasn't too bothered about possibly getting killed on a suspicious broom either. He was also far more concerned about Quidditch and the enormous chances he would have winning with that fantastic broom. And yet I wouldn't call Harry hollow either. Both Oliver and Wood are Quidditch fanatics, who'd go to quite a length to score a win. They are very exhuberant, and yes, a bit thoughtless in their enthusiasm. But hollow? Not really.

And we can't really expect Oliver's voice to overflow with emotion really after a loss. He pulled himself together enough under the circumstances, and shows tact and concern later when asking Harry if he managed to learn to defend himself against the dementors, as he didn't really wanted to be forced to take Harry off the team.
 
 I really think that the adjectives hollow and dead Rowling uses when describing Oliver's voice do more reflect Harry's very own inner feelings after the loss - he feels hollow and dead inside as he tries to come to terms with the fact that he lost a match for the first time.


P.S. And I just thought of something else that proves Oliver's strength as a person and Captain: Fred and George - and I think most of the others as well - think Hufflepuff team is a pushover, in other words, a weak team they will easily win against. Oliver however, points out that Cedric Diggory put up a really strong team to be reckoned with. He is not only an objective judge here, but also shows that he doesn't hold with any prejudices against Hufflepuff house. Instead he points out their strengths.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 10:56:07 AM by siena »
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June 01, 2014, 03:29:03 PM
Reply #11

Evreka

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1) How the heck does that map work? Holy moly, that thing is cool.
By magic, of course!  ;)

Of all the magical objects in the HP world, the Marauders Map is the coolest! Every time I get to the part where the map is described, it almost gives me goosebumps! I am ever in awe how the whole castle is there on the map and all the little labels for the people are there. That really is magical! I would imagine that the map somehow shows you what you want to know - sort of like the RoR appears to fill your needs. ... It also is so cool how it gives hints to Harry as to how to open the One Eyed Witch's hump. Very, very cool.
:stars:  :hearts: This really is a star object! I really, really love this thing and I understand why Harry carries it with him even after leaving Hogwarts.


I can't help but note that the title on the map under the authors' names says, "Purveyors of Aids to Magical Mischief Makers".  This sounds very Fred-and-George-like to me!  :fredgeorge: ...  I also wonder if they might have considered producing items like this as Fred and George did, had the war not changed their lives completely.  :'(
When I first read POA, the Marauders certainly sounded like Fred and George, but after the later books, particularly OOP, I've come to see them as slightly more "evil" than that. We haven't seen any instances in the books where the twins pranks actually hurt another person lastingly either physically or mentally - with the exception of Dudley and the Ton-Tongue Tofee. I think the twins are mainly fooling around to have fun in a careless way, in which they sometimes use other people, who happens to be around, for laughs. I also think they would be prone to "get back on" people who were mean to friends of theirs - like Dudley. While this isn't very kind, it is still a long way off from deliberately seeking out certain students to be mean to for entertainment.

That said, I am not saying that the Marauder's were truly evil either, but I think that they, in their cleverness and care-freeness got carried away further than the twins usually are.

Either way, it's an interesting thought to ponder, what would they have wanted to do after school, had there not been a war going on?  ??? As they left Hogwarts without trying to get their Map back seems to suggest that they'd grown out of such things by then, but that might have also had to do with the need to address the war, I guess?


2) Why didn’t the Potters make Dumbledore or someone else the secret-keeper? Wouldn’t it have been obvious to anyone on the outside to target Black?
Because if your life depends on it, you are going to choose the person you trust the most no matter what else. And James knew Sirius would never betray him, and would always have his and his son's and Lily's best interest at heart. Possibly, he thought that Albus, who had so many people to feel responsibility for, and who was putting his trust in people James' might not have chosen himself, was a greater liability?

Sirius idea, to let Peter do the actual secret keeping, while he acted as a decoy, would have been brilliant, had Peter not been a spy. But then again, paint it Black certainly have a good point:

James knew that it would be impossible for Sirius to give him up, but if they were going to impulsively change their choice of secret-keeper to Peter ... well, why not go with someone who is practically infallible if they were going to change their choice from Sirius?  These were all still very young men who might be prone to overconfidence and making decisions without thinking them all the way through.  If, instead of blindly trusting Sirius' suggestion to use Peter, James had stopped to think, This is the life of my wife and child, shouldn't I choose the wizard who will absolutely not fall against Voldemort?, things would have turned out very differently indeed.
Why, indeed? The upside is that Albus was known as the only man Voldemort feared. It do seems like the ideal choice, when they decide to not use Sirius. However, wouldn't this has been just as obvious a choice? And the fact that Albus trusted people James and Sirius didn't, might also have come in here, I guess.

Peter, on the other hand, no one would ever suspect it.

And yet, during VWII Arthur becomes Secret Keeper for the Weasleys, if I remember correctly, and isn't that the ultimate protection ever? Why didn't James become his family's Secret Keeper himself?

The oddest thing, though, is how anyone could know where they lived if Peter didn't tell them, so howcome Dumbledore didn't know of the switch? Maybe he got a note with their address, and couldn't tell Peter's handwriting from Sirius?




3) Why doesn’t Hermione turn Harry (or at least the map) in?
Because it would be the same as to put him in trouble, not to mention the Weasley twins. And I have a feeling Hermione would never betray Harry's secrets to somebody else. (If she had, their friendship would never have healed, I think.) This is something he confides in her, the Firebolt is a gift he is sent - and besides she is terrified it might be a trap. It's completely different.

It is loyalty to Harry. She might encourage him to give up the map, but she isn't going to go behind his back unless she thinks he is in real danger, and the arguments that Sirius couldn't use the extra secret passages the map shows are enough to convince her that the danger from them isn't great.
I agree.

I have to say that this is one of the few places in the series where I instantly reacted exactly as Ron did.  Is Hermione crazy??  Turn in something that valuable??  I'm a little surprised that she could not see beyond how it was used for mischief-making and see that it could be used to locate Sirius if he were within the castle.
Yay!  :thumbup: I thought pretty much the same thing! (Sorry Hermione!)



Aside from the Marauder's Map itself, one of the things I adore about this chapter, ... was the introduction of some delicious BACKSTORY.  :yay: Holy smokes, Sirius Black was Harry's dad's best friend!!!  :o I can remember the delightful shock upon reading that for the first time.  This Just Got Interesting!!!  Up until this point, the series for me had been some really neat books about a wizarding boy and his daring adventures against an evil wizard.  Learning more about Harry's parents -- their wedding, their friends, their murder -- made the whole series deepen for me. 
I loved this too, and I also loved how fresh this adventure felt, after the re-hashing of the Voldemort/Riddle line in COS. But most fascinating of all was the realisation that we've heard of Black already as he is mentioned, however briefly in PS/SS - and I began to realise the scope of the hints in this plot jigsaw. With all background introduced, it felt like a story that just grew from page to page.

At my first read, I was convinced Lupin was in fact Black in disguise, a conclusion I reached from the Sneakoscope going off on the train when there are seemingly only four persons in the compartment: Lupin definitely qualifying as the untrustworthy one. Further, he looked so poor and in bad condition (which would be natural if he recently escaped from Azkaban), knew how to scare Dementors away, and how to treat persons afflicted by them. There were many things that "fit" to this theory, not least the following in this chapter:
Quote from: POA, page 140-1
"The fortress is set on a tiny island, way out to sea, but they don't need walls and water to keep the prisoners in, not when they're all trapped inside their own heads, incapable of a single cheery thought. Most of them go mad within weeks."
"But Sirius Black escaped from them," Harry said slowly. "He got away..."
Lupin's briefcase slipped from the desk; he had to stoop quickly to catch it.
"Yes," he said, straightening up, "Black must have found a way to fight them. I wouldn't have believed it possible.... Dementors are supposed to drain a wizard of his powers if he is left with them too long...."
"You made that Dementor on the train back off," said Harry suddenly.
"There are - certain defenses one can use," said Lupin. "But there was only one Dementor on the train. The more there are, the more difficult it becomes to resist."
Lupin seems to know an awful lot about the prison and how the imprisoned have it. And the way his briefcase slips when Harry mentions Black's escape... Suspicious, very suspicious....  :hmm: .... Or so I thoght.... ;)


Like Hagrid, I'm confused why Sirius tells him to take his motorbike to deliver Harry, and says that he won't be needing it anymore.  I wonder what Sirius' plan was after he left the Potter's.  Surely he wanted to track down Peter, but then what?  Why would he no longer need the bike?  Did he intend to murder Peter and turn himself in afterwards?  Did he intend to try to infiltrate Voldemort's defenses to find Peter, and that the bike would be to large and loud to be useful?  I wonder, after he found that James and Lily were dead, what kind of outcome did Sirius intend for that evening?  :hmm:
You're right, this is a bit curious?  ??? I guess his plans was to get hold of Peter and maybe he thought Peter would be together with Voldemort and that he himself was therefore unlikely to survive the encounter?  :what:

Or possibly that he needed to use other means of transportation that was more stealthy than the motorbike to be able to find Peter?

Another possibility could be that he only saw revenge in front of him, as he just had got the worst shock of his life, and then been denied to take care of the only living remains that he cared about? Maybe he intended to hunt down Peter, Voldemort, and all Death Eaters he could find until someone ended him? Maybe he wasn't thinking straight at all, being a bit unhinged by what had happened?


I think Sirius suspected  at that point that he would get caught and couldn't prove that he wasn't Secret Keeper any more. Sirius anticipated Peter disappearing, which meant that he, Sirius, would be prime suspect. Just think how easily Peter is able to disguise himself - a little rat, gone in a matter of seconds, nobody would ever be any the wiser. It's very easy for Peter to fake his death and disappear - it would almost have worked for him again more than a decade later. Well, in a way it did work again - he got away once more
I guess this is also possible, although it is also a bit odd, given two things that the Wizarding World has to help them out: Veritaserum and Priori Incantatum, ought to have been able to prove his innocence. So, had he not, to all appearance, been caught red-handed with mass murder I assume he should have been able to get cleared.


I think Sirius is in part giving the bike to Hagrid so he can transport Harry (he probably bought the bike to carry Harry away). Once he gives up on taking Harry, the bike is of less use to him, and it would probably be easy to hide from the authorities or find Peter without it.
:what: What? I agree, that he gives it to Hagrid to take Harry to safety as fast as possible, but we know that he had owned that bike for years by then. Not from the canon text, I admit, but from interviews with Jo as well as the HP Prequel card that she wrote for some charity event.


In this chapter, too, Jo slips in one of those THIPS, hinting at the future to come:
Quote from: Fudge, page 156, BPE
I must say, You-Know-Who alone and friendless is one thing... but give him back his most devoted servant, and I shudder to think how quickly he'll rise again....
:o
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June 01, 2014, 04:44:10 PM
Reply #12

siena

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I have to say I don't find the Marauder's Map that cool at all - and Rowling's use of it is somewhat flawed in my opinion. She said that the trio did not recognise Peter on the map because there were so many dots around so it was easy to overlook him ... hmmm, I am a bit doubtful about that. Harry was very able to spot Barty Crouch on the map a couple of years later ... but there should have been hundreds of dots around at that time as well ! Not to mention how Harry spots other people (Snape, Dumbledore, Filch) on the map as well, despite all those other dots ..  :hmm:

It seems that Rowling fabricated the plot around the map in the way it would suit the story, and not much how it should fit had she used logic ...

Also, the map is unable to point out people disguising themselves as someone else - in the case of Barty Crouch Junior, it only pointed out Barty Crouch, but it conveniently (to the plot) forgot to mention the Junior (although they are two entirely different people as we know) and also forgot to mention that that person faked to be Alastor Moody ...

I'm afraid to say I have to conclude the map isn't that clever at all.
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June 01, 2014, 05:05:36 PM
Reply #13

Evreka

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I have to say I don't find the Marauder's Map that cool at all - and Rowling's use of it is somewhat flawed in my opinion. She said that the trio did not recognise Peter on the map because there were so many dots around so it was easy to overlook him ... hmmm, I am a bit doubtful about that. Harry was very able to spot Barty Crouch on the map a couple of years later ... but there should have been hundreds of dots around at that time as well ! Not to mention how Harry spots other people (Snape, Dumbledore, Filch) on the map as well, despite all those other dots ..  :hmm:
I agree to a point, that had Harry at any time scrutinized the entire Map, he would have found interesting things that he doesn't find, and that failing to see that Ron shares a bed with Peter Pettigrew is probably the biggest flaw or problem here, but at the same time I don't find it improbable at all that Harry wouldn't scrutinize Gryffindor Tower for info on where anyone was, but be far more interested in other parts of the castle. And I do believe the Map is big enough so you aren't likely to spot info from any particular part unless you look for info in that part.

Also, when Harry spots Barty Crouch, it is in the middle of the night, and the amount of wizards wandering the corridors of Hogwarts at that time can't be so large the name gets obscured. Likewise, mostly when Harry spots people on the Map it is either night, when most others are in Hogsmeade or because he is looking specifically for where certain people are, like Snape, Filch and Mrs Norris.


It seems that Rowling fabricated the plot around the map in the way it would suit the story, and not much how it should fit had she used logic ...
Well, of course she uses it to further her plot, that can be said about most things in these books...


Also, the map is unable to point out people disguising themselves as someone else - in the case of Barty Crouch Junior, it only pointed out Barty Crouch, but it conveniently (to the plot) forgot to mention the Junior (although they are two entirely different people as we know) and also forgot to mention that that person faked to be Alastor Moody ...
Well, the thing is that it points out the person it IS, not whether that person appears to be somebody else, which seems like very powerful magic indeed in a world with Polyjuice Potion!

Further, both Barty Crouch Sr and Barty Crouch Jr are, indeed named Barty Crouch. Neither of them are named "Junior" or "Senior", it's just an addition they hang on their names so people can tell them apart. And the Map only shows what you are actually named, which I think is logical. It's very similar to how it shows Barty Crouch even if he claims to be called Moody, in my opinion. :)
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June 02, 2014, 01:11:50 PM
Reply #14

siena

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I appreciate what you are saying, Evreka. It is just that for me, just pointing out the name of a person is not enough (as we see in the case of the two Barty Crouchs. They are two entirely different people, yet the map cannot distinguish. For me, this means the magic behind that map isn't that brilliant at all.

But maybe this is - again - what Rowling was trying to bring across: Magic often appears to offer solutions that are brilliant (for example, the time turner appears to be the greatest device ever, yet it's usage is highly complicated and limited) but in reality magic is just as flawed as everything else in life.
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June 25, 2014, 09:42:33 AM
Reply #15

Evreka

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But maybe this is - again - what Rowling was trying to bring across: Magic often appears to offer solutions that are brilliant (for example, the time turner appears to be the greatest device ever, yet it's usage is highly complicated and limited) but in reality magic is just as flawed as everything else in life.
This is something I really love about the series.  :hearts: We are told early on that magic does have it flaws; but far more than that we also get to see it and appreciate its limitations to the full extent. The magical world which seemed all glory in PS/SS, is not quite that.

So you're right that this might be a deliberate limitation by Jo's in terms of this Map as well. :)
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