July 21, 2018, 06:35:55 PM

Author Topic: Chapter Thirteen - Gryffindor Versus Ravenclaw  (Read 1341 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

March 30, 2014, 08:15:01 PM

JaneMarple9

  • Staffer
  • *****
  • Posts: 439
Chapter Thirteen: Gryffindor Versus Ravenclaw
(Chap Summary by twiddlethosedials )


Fan Art by Irish-Gold


Scabbers’ disappearance puts more of a strain than ever between Ron and Hermione, which isn’t helped when Harry’s forced to admit the evidence doesn’t look good for Crookshanks. Madam Hooch develops a raging crush on Harry’s Firebolt. Harry assures Wood he’s got his Dementor problem sorted, but spotting the Grim - or was that Crookshanks? - makes him nervous. Harry develops a raging crush on the Ravenclaw Seeker. He pummels the Slytherins in their Dementor costumes with his Patronus. Then Sirius Black scares Ron, and it turns out he’d gotten into Gryffindor Tower with a list of passwords - thanks, Neville.

A few questions to get you started:
1) Why does the Firebolt have such a rallying effect on the whole team?

2) We know Neville’s got courage enough to stand up to his friends... how much courage did it take for him to own up to leaving the passwords out?

3) What kind of guy bets on sports against his girlfriend, with money he doesn’t have? What does that say about Percy?



"There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with a really big library"
Logged
March 31, 2014, 05:06:05 PM
Reply #1

HealerOne

  • Staffer
  • *****
  • Posts: 914
    • Chasing the Tale
3) What kind of guy bets on sports against his girlfriend, with money he doesn’t have? What does that say about Percy?

I had to laugh :lol: when I saw this question! I have never been a fan of Percy and I imagine this was one of the beginning reasons why. It really was a nervy move on his part. I honestly don't think it was because he had that much faith that Harry would save the day and win the match. I think instead he was just basically showing off in front of his girlfriend. It just goes to show what a foolish, pompous idiot Percy was ...
Logged
March 31, 2014, 06:20:42 PM
Reply #2

siena

  • *****
  • Posts: 303
I am going to repeat what I said last time in our discussion about Percy and the betting: I wouldn't want to judge him so harshly because of that. Yes, he is pompous and of course later on in OoTP does behave like an idiot, but here I think it's just youthful exhuberance, nothing more, nor less. Indeed, I find it quite endearing that he does admit in front of Harry that he doesn't have the money. It is almost funny - a good attempt at showing some humour! And Percy does have a sense of humour - we see it in DH - quite late, yes, but anyway. All the characters are on a journey - and so is Percy.

In fact I find it quite interesting that you and the questioner are judging Percy alone, HealerOne - remember, Penelope was involved in the game just as much. Just a thought...
Logged
March 31, 2014, 08:42:57 PM
Reply #3

roonwit

  • *****
  • Posts: 477
1) Why does the Firebolt have such a rallying effect on the whole team?
It is a big morale boost to the team because it means that Harry stands a very good chance of getting the snitch and winning the match.
2) We know Neville’s got courage enough to stand up to his friends... how much courage did it take for him to own up to leaving the passwords out?
That hadn't occurred to me before, but Neville was brave to own up - he could have kept quiet, and it is unlikely that the others who knew he had a list would have said do.
3) What kind of guy bets on sports against his girlfriend, with money he doesn’t have? What does that say about Percy?
10 Galleons is a lot of money, about 50 GBP, and is worth about one and a half wands, or over a quarter of Fred and George's combined savings in GoF. I wonder if Penelope proposed the bet and Percy only accepted because he was convinced Gryffindor would win. Percy is a fool if he proposed the bet, but it also suggests a degree of distance or dishonesty in the relationship if Penelope doesn't know that Percy is gambling beyond his means.
Logged
March 31, 2014, 09:56:35 PM
Reply #4

siena

  • *****
  • Posts: 303
This is a bet between two friends - not a real gambling situation. A legally binding contract doesn't seem to exist for all we know. It is not like the twins' gambling at the World Cup. That would have been legally binding.  I find it much more likely that, in the unlikely event Gryffindor had not won, Percy would have confessed to Penelope - grudgingly and red-faced, yes - and she would have been suitably cross with Percy for a while, that's all. We just don't know enough about the relationship to judge whether it would have a major impact or not.  We musn't forget - this is a relationship between two teenagers, so  I don't think we can expect them to be entirely mature and  honest with each other. There is a lot of showing - off and pretention involved.
Logged
June 15, 2014, 03:27:51 PM
Reply #5

Evreka

  • Quibbling Queen
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1700
    • Try & Trix
1) Why does the Firebolt have such a rallying effect on the whole team?
Well, seeing as it's an international, professional standard broom that is miles above the kind of brooms everyone else have - even "spoiled rotten Draco" - is this surprising?  :mcgonagall2: On this broom Gryffindor's Seeker can outrun and overtake all other players, he can even outrace a Bludger, without the slightest effort! No wonder they are all thrilled.   :fredgeorgequidditch: Also, for the Seekers especially, speed can be key to getting to the Snitch first. This broom has really upped Gryffindor's chances to win the Cup! :snitch: :harryquidditch:


2) We know Neville’s got courage enough to stand up to his friends... how much courage did it take for him to own up to leaving the passwords out?

Weeell... yes, I am sure it took courage, but he is really up against a wall here.

That hadn't occurred to me before, but Neville was brave to own up - he could have kept quiet, and it is unlikely that the others who knew he had a list would have said do.
I disagree. With McGonagall that furious, and with several Gryffindors knowing that he had had such a list and lost it, it isn't a secret he can keep. Further, even if no Gryffindors had offered this info, all McGonagall had had to do to find out the truth, would be to ask sir Cadogan, which students had had such a list, and Neville would have been in an even worse fix for, on top of everything else, not admitting that this is his fault, despite one of his classmates nearly getting killed...  :( ... (as far as we have reasons to believe).

Sooo, well it's his only option, and as such it isn't really a matter of courage, I think.


3) What kind of guy bets on sports against his girlfriend, with money he doesn’t have? What does that say about Percy?
I don't think it says anything new about Percy: We already know he is a pompous fool.  :jester: Although, I suppose that if you should ever bet with money you don't own, you better do so with someone who says they love you and not with... Goblins for example...? :P

But when you take into account that we know that Percy has objections on the twins gambling on the results of the QWC match, with money they did have it gets even more surprising! What a hypocrite!  :mcgonagall2:


I have never been a fan of Percy and I imagine this was one of the beginning reasons why. It really was a nervy move on his part. I honestly don't think it was because he had that much faith that Harry would save the day and win the match. I think instead he was just basically showing off in front of his girlfriend. It just goes to show what a foolish, pompous idiot Percy was ...
I'm not very fond of Percy either, but I wonder if it didn't come to pass by Penelope suggesting the bet (or at least the amount of money) and Percy being ashamed to admit he didn't have that much to loose. Partly because he was ashamed of being poor in front of her, and partly because he didn't want to voice any doubt that they'd win (as otherwise this is not a problem.), the more so as he has brothers on the team. For all we know, she might have been expecting him to decline ...

I wonder if Penelope proposed the bet and Percy only accepted because he was convinced Gryffindor would win.
That's another possibility of course, that he was confident they'd win, ... but still... Somehow I wonder if he wasn't more ashamed to admit he couldn't afford it?   :-\


10 Galleons is a lot of money, about 50 GBP, and is worth about one and a half wands, or over a quarter of Fred and George's combined savings in GoF. ... Percy is a fool if he proposed the bet, but it also suggests a degree of distance or dishonesty in the relationship if Penelope doesn't know that Percy is gambling beyond his means.
That's an interesting aspect of it, that I haven't considered before. You're right about how Penelope ought to have realised this!  :o So then the question becomes whose fault it is that she doesn't? Has Percy put on a show for her? Is she blind for this aspect of Percy's family? Maybe she comes from a rich family and doesn't appreciate or understand that this is a lot of money to others, as it is peanuts to her?  :mcgonagall2:


This is a bet between two friends - not a real gambling situation. A legally binding contract doesn't seem to exist for all we know. ... I find it much more likely that, in the unlikely event Gryffindor had not won, Percy would have confessed to Penelope - grudgingly and red-faced, yes - and she would have been suitably cross with Percy for a while, that's all. We just don't know enough about the relationship to judge whether it would have a major impact or not.  We musn't forget - this is a relationship between two teenagers, so  I don't think we can expect them to be entirely mature and  honest with each other. There is a lot of showing - off and pretention involved.
You've got a point about a bet between friends, for all we know, Percy might have payed off the bet galleon for galleon, had Gryffindor lost. But even so it isn't a good idea to start to make bets you can't owe up to and it's a red warning light for Percy's character none-the-less. Also, while Harry is 13 at this time, the twins will turn 16 in a few weeks time and Percy is already of age. He has no excuse for making this very dangerous kind of bet.

As for legality of the bet the twins made... it didn't really help them at all, did it?


I noticed something else for the first time on this umpteenth reread:
Quote from: POA, page 190 BPE
People from the Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff tables were soon coming over to look [at the Firebolt]. Cedric Diggory came over to congratulate Harry on having acquired such a superb replacement for his Nimbus, ...
(My colour.) Aww, he really is a just and kind boy, right?  :hug:


And then I suddenly got more than puzzled on the practicalities of how you carry a wand around?  :what: As Harry changes into his Quidditch robes he does this:
Quote from:  POA, p. 191 BPE
Harry took off his black school robes, removed his wand from his pocket, and stuck it inside the T-shirt he was going to wear under his Quidditch robes.
HOW do you stuck a wand into your T-shirt in such a way that it stays there when you are wearing robes and not trousers (or skirt)? By magic?

And... shouldn't the fact that you have a stiff, 11 inches long wand carried on your back (or front), greatly reduce your movability in the game?  :what: What do you think?

This match is the first time we hear about Harry finding a girl pretty...  :hearts: Oooh lala.....
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 03:36:09 PM by Evreka »
Logged
June 15, 2014, 08:13:08 PM
Reply #6

siena

  • *****
  • Posts: 303
I don't think Sir Cadogan necessarily knew that it was Neville who created that list. When McGonagall asks him how Black knew the passwords, he answered something like He read them off a list of paper . His use of an indefinite article (a list ) suggests to me that he hadn't seen the list before. He did give Neville all the passwords upon request but this doesn't necessarily mean he saw Neville copying them down. I also doubt that any other Gryffindors apart from the trio knew about the list. Neville specifically told the trio, but I doubt very much he told anyone else. He would have been too embarrassed, and also I don't think he talked that much to anyone else apart from the trio. So unless someone was inclined to sniff around Neville's bedside table (but why should any Gryffindor boy be inclined to do that really?) they wouldn't know about that list.

But even in the unlikely event that either Sir C. or a Gryffindor boy knew about the list, I find it a very brave act indeed to admit to the facts right there and then - in front of his classmates and his teacher. He could have kept silent then, to find McGonagall at a later point to admit it just in front of her. But no - he faced up to his mistake there and then, so that any further enquiries became unnecessary, and no one was falsely accused. Had he not admitted things then, McGonagall would have probably restricted the liberties of all the students until the guilty one was found.
Logged
June 25, 2014, 09:56:50 AM
Reply #7

Evreka

  • Quibbling Queen
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1700
    • Try & Trix
I don't think Sir Cadogan necessarily knew that it was Neville who created that list. When McGonagall asks him how Black knew the passwords, he answered something like He read them off a list of paper . His use of an indefinite article (a list ) suggests to me that he hadn't seen the list before. He did give Neville all the passwords upon request but this doesn't necessarily mean he saw Neville copying them down.
Well, I think it was very unusual for any student to know of comming passwords that were not yet in effect. Quite possibly the amount of students that Sir Cadogan had given all those passwords to, would have boiled down to just Neville or maybe one or two others. So whether Sir Dadogan saw Neville write them down or not is something of a mute point, I think, seeing as Minerva could just ask him who knew these passwords ahead of time instead.


But even in the unlikely event that either Sir C. or a Gryffindor boy knew about the list, I find it a very brave act indeed to admit to the facts right there and then - in front of his classmates and his teacher. He could have kept silent then, to find McGonagall at a later point to admit it just in front of her. But no - he faced up to his mistake there and then, ...
I agree that this took courage, and quite a lot of it.  :neville:
Logged