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Author Topic: Harry's Dream Diary  (Read 1647 times)

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April 03, 2014, 04:39:26 PM

HealerOne

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Harry’s Dream Diary
Insights into the ‘Collective Unconscious’

“Dreams tap into the information database of memory, experience, perception and cultural belief, and form new ideas and concepts. They also present us with a way of solving problems which may seem impossible on a conscious level. When the limitations of the conscious mind places on the thought processes are removed, the mind is free to roam wherever it pleases. Free from inhibitions it will create scenarios and situations which defy explanations by the logical side of the personality. We can thereby tap into not only our own storehouse of images, but also into an even more subtle level of information available to everyone. This is the level Jung labeled the Collective Unconscious.”  From 10,000 Dreams Interpreted by Pamela Ball.

Through out PoA, Harry has four important dreams that we will be discussing. Sirius has the 'bonus dream.  Let’s take a look at the dreams:

Dream One: Post-Traumatic Stress Flashbacks – The Dememtor induced dreams of his Mother’s pleading.

Harry’s night in the hospital wing after falling off his broom is punctuated by a series of repeated images; ‘clammy, rotted hands”, and a ‘petrified pleading’ voice.

Dream Two: The film strip - The half-awake dreams of Black betraying his parents. In his half dream state, Harry imagines what evil acts Black must have done to ingratiate himself to Voldemort – killing a Neville-like Petigrew and excitedly telling a laughing Voldemort that he was the Secret-Keeper for the Potters.

The images that fill this dream include Sirius Black, a Peter Petigrew who looks like Neville, blasting, murmuring, and shrill laughter.

Dream Three: The Unfinished Dream – A walk in the forest. This is perhaps the most interesting of Harry’s third years dreams. He dreams of following something silvery in a forest. As he speeds to catch up with it, it moves away faster. He hears hooves as he runs as fast as he can into a clearing … then awakens to Ron’s shouts.

The components of this dream include: Harry walking, then running, then ‘flat out running’; ‘something’ silvery-white; winding through trees; a forest; the sound of hooves, the sound of galloping; a turn around a corner; and a clearing.

Dream Four: The Pre-Quidditch Dream – Neville as a substitute. Another interesting dream here! It’s actually made up of two snippets. The first being that he’d overslept and Wood had appointed Neville as his substitute. The second snippet had Malfoy and the Slytherin team riding on dragons in the Quidditch match. Harry flies at amazing speed to avoid the fire coming from the dragons. He realizes he forgot his Firebolt and he dreams of falling. He awakens in a dither.

The images that appear in this dream are: Neville as a substitute for him, Wood, Malfoy, the Slytherin Quidditch team, the riding of dragons, flying through the air at a high rate of speed, the avoidance of flames – specifically from Malfoy’s dragon’s mouth, the forgotten Firebolt broom, and falling. 


Here are some questions to start out discussion about the dreams -
~ How are the components of this dream symbolic?
~ What are the pertinent events that lead up to this dream?
~ Do you think the events of the dream(s) are memory based or experienced based? Or …
~ Do you think this is a precognitive dream(s) foretelling what is in store for Harry?
~ If the third dream had not been interrupted, do you think Harry would have naturally awakened at this point in the dream, or would he have found out what was in the clearing?
~ How would you interpret these dreams?

Bonus Dream - Sirius’ Dream in Azkaban
There is one other mention of dreams in PoA and that is of the reported dreams of Sirius Black while in Azkaban.

The components that were reported to be in the dream include the nouns, ‘he’ and ‘Hogwarts’.

A few questions as to this dream interpretation –
~ We know now that the ‘he’ mentioned in Sirius’ mumblings, was not Harry, but Peter Petigrew. This misinterpretation led to much anxiety for Harry as well as the hunt for the wrong man. Is this a lesson for the magical world about dream interpretation, or for the readers about JKR’s intentional misdirection, or something else?
~ Do you think this is purely an experienced-based dream or a precognitive dream?
~ How would you interpret this dream?


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June 15, 2014, 04:06:09 PM
Reply #1

Evreka

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As I read this today: POA, Chapter 13, p 196 BPE (near the end of the chapter):
Quote
He [Harry] had a very strange dream. He was walking through a forest, his Firebolt over his shoulder, following something silvery-white. It was winding its way through the trees ahead, and he could only catch glimpses of it between the leaves. Anxious to catch up with it, he sped up, but as he moved faster, so did his quarry. Harry broke into a run, and ahead he heard hooves gathering speed. Now he was running flat out, and ahead he could hear galloping. Then he turned a corner into a clearing and -

I was very distinctly reminded of another passage, in another book: DH, Chapter 19, p298-99 British Hardcover Edition:
Quote
A bright silver light appeared right ahead of him, moving through the trees. Whatever the source, it was moving soundlessly. The light seemed simply to drift towards him..... And then the source of the light stepped out from behind an oak. It was a silver-white doe, moon-bright and dazzling, picking her way over the ground, still silent, and leaving no hoof prints in the fine powdering of snow. She stepped towards him, her beautiful head with its wide, long-lashed eyes held high.

Harry stared at the creature, filled with wonder, not at her strangeness, but at her inexplicable familiarity. He felt that he had been waiting for her to come, but that he had forgotten, until this moment, that they had arranged to meet. ...

Snow crunched beneath his feet, but the doe made no noise as she passed through the trees, for she was nothing but light. Deeper and deeper into the forest she led him, and Harry walked quickly, sure that when she stopped, she would allow him to approach her properly. And then she would speak, and the voice would tell him what he needed to know.

At last, she came to a halt. She turned her beautiful head towards him once more, and he broke into a run, a question burning in him, but as he opened his lips to ask it, she vanished.
(My bold) Of course these two parts do not match each other all the way, the first was, after all a dream, but I do think there are similarities.

Do you think it might be a very distant - and somewhat distorted - recollection of this old dream that makes him feel like he does in the bolded paragraph? Why else would he feel like they'd arranged to meet?

Do you think there are other parts in the books that fit in better on the dream from POA?
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June 15, 2014, 06:42:05 PM
Reply #2

HealerOne

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Oh boy I think you brought up the one dream that stumped me for a long time! When I initially read POA I thought this dream referred to Harry's stint in the forest near the lake where he conjures his Patronus to save himself, Hermione and Sirius, but it just didn't fit well. Nor did it seem to fit seeking his broom or a snitch. However on my very first read of DH when I got to The Silver Doe chapter, I almost fell off my chair! Really! I think I punched the person next to me and whispered "That's the dream!"

 It seems that many of Harry's dreams do relate to things happening around him or in the immediate future, but this one really had me going! Why do you suppose he has this dream at this point in the series? One thought I had was that - Harry had been working on his Patronus which of course surely refers to his Father. Expecto Patronum! Translates (roughly) to Expecting my Father. This may have led him to think about Patronuses. But recently I have wondered if Harry may have gotten caught up in a 'wormhole' created by Hermione messing with Time. Maybe his dream was really a swift peek into the future when parallel times were crossing because of Hermione and her TimeTurner? (Or have I been reading too much SciFy?   :tardis:) Sigh, then again the Doe was a female version of his father's Patronus ... Hmm perhaps it was thinking about Cho that triggered this dream? What do you think?
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June 15, 2014, 08:34:27 PM
Reply #3

siena

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Snape's patronus - as we know - is created out of deepest love-longing for Lily, Harry's mother. I think the doe looked familiar to Harry because she represents his mother, the person, he, Harry, is longing to meet more than anyone else as well. I think Harry and Snape are united here through the depths of their feelings, I believe Harry could feel some of Snape's love for Lily expressed in the patronus and felt the sensation of familiarity.

As in the dream in PoA you mentioned - I think it is this: Harry is desperate to produce a strong, powerful patronus to fight off those dementors. I think it is his quest to pursue this wish so desperately, he literally chases after it in his dream, yet it still escapes him at that point. The expected unification with his father (and the strength gained from this) hasn't manifested itself yet in reality, it is yet just a silvery shimmer escaping Harry.

But Harry does what Dumbledore told him to do: He does not get stuck in dreams, but carries on living. Thereby he gains the strength to conquer his fears.
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June 25, 2014, 10:32:31 AM
Reply #4

Evreka

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Oh boy I think you brought up the one dream that stumped me for a long time! ... However on my very first read of DH when I got to The Silver Doe chapter, I almost fell off my chair! Really! I think I punched the person next to me and whispered "That's the dream!"
Those times of wonder at recognizing things from theories come true before your eyes are great to remember!  :thumbup: I've had a few too, but not related to Dreams (I think).


It seems that many of Harry's dreams do relate to things happening around him or in the immediate future, but this one really had me going! Why do you suppose he has this dream at this point in the series? One thought I had was that - Harry had been working on his Patronus which of course surely refers to his Father. Expecto Patronum! Translates (roughly) to Expecting my Father. This may have led him to think about Patronuses.
That is a very interesting question, because at this point he doesn't yet know what his corporeal Patronus looks like, or its extreme connection to his father!

But you are right about him working very hard to achieve a Patronus, so I guess you can say that in a figurative way of speaking he is persuing it, knowing only it is made of white light, and being desperate to finally see it. I agree with siena:
Harry is desperate to produce a strong, powerful patronus to fight off those dementors. I think it is his quest to pursue this wish so desperately, he literally chases after it in his dream, yet it still escapes him at that point.


But recently I have wondered if Harry may have gotten caught up in a 'wormhole' created by Hermione messing with Time. Maybe his dream was really a swift peek into the future when parallel times were crossing because of Hermione and her TimeTurner? (Or have I been reading too much SciFy?   :tardis:)
Interesting theory... I guess we'd need to know how much Jo knew about various sci-fi "explanations" on time travel when she wrote POA to be able to acurately guess on this. But we do know that she put down a lot of research on various aspects, and that it is entirely possible that she looked up how other authors/films and so on has treated the subject of time travelling. It could even be a "joke" of sorts as a wink to sci-fi lovers, that there is a connection to Harry's future in here?


Sigh, then again the Doe was a female version of his father's Patronus ... Hmm perhaps it was thinking about Cho that triggered this dream? What do you think?
This, I don't think is significant at all, in the Dream he does not know what he chases, in DH we all know why it was a doe. And also it was a Dream, not a window to the future, the way a Pensieve is a sort of "window" to the past.

A few chapters on (from the Patronus Dream) he Dreams about the comming Quidditch match as Slytherins turning up on dragons, which has of course never happenned; but which none-the-less feels like foreshadowing for the First Task in the TWT next year. So the details are often not right, even if the theme of the Dream seems to sometimes come to pass.


Snape's patronus - as we know - is created out of deepest love-longing for Lily, Harry's mother. I think the doe looked familiar to Harry because she represents his mother, the person, he, Harry, is longing to meet more than anyone else as well.
It's an elegant theory, my problem with it is that it isn't until after the King Cross Dream, that Harry understands that the doe represents Lily, does he? But of course it is possible that he subconsciously link her to Lily anyway, as he knows the stag to be a link to his father.

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June 25, 2014, 11:30:30 AM
Reply #5

siena

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Snape's patronus - as we know - is created out of deepest love-longing for Lily, Harry's mother. I think the doe looked familiar to Harry because she represents his mother, the person, he, Harry, is longing to meet more than anyone else as well.
It's an elegant theory, my problem with it is that it isn't until after the King Cross Dream, that Harry understands that the doe represents Lily, does he? But of course it is possible that he subconsciously link her to Lily anyway, as he knows the stag to be a link to his father.



Harry learns about Snape's love for Lily and his Patronus in the chapter The Prince's Tale

But yes, his familiarity with the doe in the forest and my theory is rooted in the subconcious. It does play a powerful role here.









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June 26, 2014, 03:46:17 PM
Reply #6

HealerOne

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This, I don't think is significant at all, in the Dream he does not know what he chases, in DH we all know why it was a doe. And also it was a Dream, not a window to the future, the way a Pensieve is a sort of "window" to the past.

A few chapters on (from the Patronus Dream) he Dreams about the comming Quidditch match as Slytherins turning up on dragons, which has of course never happenned; but which none-the-less feels like foreshadowing for the First Task in the TWT next year. So the details are often not right, even if the theme of the Dream seems to sometimes come to pass.

I'm not so sure about that - in DH Draco and Harry are on a broom racing about the RoR being chased by "flaming chimaeras and dragons" due to an out-of-control curse that Crabbe had set in motion. The dream is surprisingly similar to that scene.
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June 26, 2014, 11:03:16 PM
Reply #7

Evreka

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A few chapters on (from the Patronus Dream) he Dreams about the comming Quidditch match as Slytherins turning up on dragons, which has of course never happenned; but which none-the-less feels like foreshadowing for the First Task in the TWT next year. So the details are often not right, even if the theme of the Dream seems to sometimes come to pass.
I'm not so sure about that - in DH Draco and Harry are on a broom racing about the RoR being chased by "flaming chimaeras and dragons" due to an out-of-control curse that Crabbe had set in motion. The dream is surprisingly similar to that scene.
Is it?  :surprised: That's something I've missed!  :hmm: Can you quote the scene in DH, I am at vacation and do not have DH with me, just POA.
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June 28, 2014, 04:32:02 PM
Reply #8

HealerOne

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A few chapters on (from the Patronus Dream) he Dreams about the comming Quidditch match as Slytherins turning up on dragons, which has of course never happenned; but which none-the-less feels like foreshadowing for the First Task in the TWT next year. So the details are often not right, even if the theme of the Dream seems to sometimes come to pass.
I'm not so sure about that - in DH Draco and Harry are on a broom racing about the RoR being chased by "flaming chimaeras and dragons" due to an out-of-control curse that Crabbe had set in motion. The dream is surprisingly similar to that scene.
Is it?  :surprised: That's something I've missed!  :hmm: Can you quote the scene in DH, I am at vacation and do not have DH with me, just POA.
Yes, That's in the Battle of Hogwarts -Chapter 31. The Trio have gone into the RoR to try and find the Diadem and Crabbe starts the Fiendfire that goes out of control. Harry picks up Malfoy on his broom and they race out of the RoR as the fire changes into fiery dragons and Chimaeras chasing after them. In my mind, there are symbolic similarities in that dream about Harry being chased by Malfoy on a fire breathing dragon that it mimics the scene in DH.
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June 28, 2014, 08:33:09 PM
Reply #9

Evreka

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A few chapters on (from the Patronus Dream) he Dreams about the comming Quidditch match as Slytherins turning up on dragons, which has of course never happenned; but which none-the-less feels like foreshadowing for the First Task in the TWT next year. So the details are often not right, even if the theme of the Dream seems to sometimes come to pass.
I'm not so sure about that - in DH Draco and Harry are on a broom racing about the RoR being chased by "flaming chimaeras and dragons" due to an out-of-control curse that Crabbe had set in motion. The dream is surprisingly similar to that scene.
Is it?  :surprised: That's something I've missed!  :hmm: Can you quote the scene in DH, I am at vacation and do not have DH with me, just POA.
Yes, That's in the Battle of Hogwarts -Chapter 31. The Trio have gone into the RoR to try and find the Diadem and Crabbe starts the Fiendfire that goes out of control. Harry picks up Malfoy on his broom and they race out of the RoR as the fire changes into fiery dragons and Chimaeras chasing after them. In my mind, there are symbolic similarities in that dream about Harry being chased by Malfoy on a fire breathing dragon that it mimics the scene in DH.
Ah, OK, now I know which scene you are referring to. Well, maybe. It's hard to tell if it would be that one or the First Task, but of course Malfoy is in the DH one.
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