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September 27, 2014, 08:46:33 AM

paint it Black

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:train:

From the age of eleven onwards, the first day of September held a special meaning for Harry Potter.  :harry:  His first trip on the Hogwarts Express was a time of wonder, but in each subsequent year its significance changed somewhat.  How is Harry's growth shown from year to year each time he boards the train?  Does his mood and/or emotional state vary each year?  Does the state of the wizarding world each year impact the events on the journey?  Do you think that this date remained significant to Harry into adulthood?

Bonus question:  If you switch the numerical month and day of the date that the students board the Hogwarts Express, which HP character's birthday do you have?  :crabbegoyle:



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September 27, 2014, 11:49:07 AM
Reply #1

Hermione P

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I think I am going to take some time to write my reply to this. In the meantime, I have a question:
Bonus question:  If you switch the numerical month and day of the date that the students board the Hogwarts Express, which HP character's birthday do you have?  :crabbegoyle:
Sorry, I don't quite understand the bonus question. As in which birthday we would have if the Hogwarts year started on 9 January?
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September 27, 2014, 12:57:40 PM
Reply #2

Evreka

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I think I am going to take some time to write my reply to this. In the meantime, I have a question:
Bonus question:  If you switch the numerical month and day of the date that the students board the Hogwarts Express, which HP character's birthday do you have?  :crabbegoyle:
Sorry, I don't quite understand the bonus question. As in which birthday we would have if the Hogwarts year started on 9 January?
I too, will have to come back to the significance of 1 September, but as to your question, paint it Black wonders which HP character celebrates their birthday on the date in question.  ;)
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September 28, 2014, 05:54:12 AM
Reply #3

Hermione P

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I think I am going to take some time to write my reply to this. In the meantime, I have a question:
Bonus question:  If you switch the numerical month and day of the date that the students board the Hogwarts Express, which HP character's birthday do you have?  :crabbegoyle:
Sorry, I don't quite understand the bonus question. As in which birthday we would have if the Hogwarts year started on 9 January?
I too, will have to come back to the significance of 1 September, but as to your question, paint it Black wonders which HP character celebrates their birthday on the date in question.  ;)
Thanks.

It's Snape :snape:.
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September 28, 2014, 12:12:15 PM
Reply #4

Evreka

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:train:From the age of eleven onwards, the first day of September held a special meaning for Harry Potter.  :harry:  His first trip on the Hogwarts Express was a time of wonder, but in each subsequent year its significance changed somewhat.  How is Harry's growth shown from year to year each time he boards the train?  Does his mood and/or emotional state vary each year?  Does the state of the wizarding world each year impact the events on the journey?  Do you think that this date remained significant to Harry into adulthood?

I love the way in which we can follow not only Harry's growth - in years as well as maturity - but also the changes in the Wizarding World, through these train rides to the best home there is for young witches and wizards!  :hogwartsc:

At age 11, the travel is the first real introduction of what it will be like living in the wizarding World (as opposed to dipping into it for a day). It's a travel of all wonder: Choccolate frogs that jump, Choccalate frog cards with pictures that move! How cool is that?  :love: And Harry receives it all with the same wonder and delight as I, as a reader, do. We're both (in terms of the story) equally innocent, perceptive and eager to learn more! Yet at the same time; it is not all joy and wonder, there are dark elements in this world too: bullies who show up to pick a fight, meddlesome girls who wants to boss him around, memories of true evil in the past, worries of not fitting in... And yet, with an 11 year old child's ability to focus on the present minute, all worries are distant. We are speeding through a peaceful country, where wizards have found a peaceful way to live side by side with Muggles, and mostly everything is light and hinting at good adventures.



A year later, it is easy to picture Hermione's worry when neither of her best friends are on the train!!  :o Where are they?!  Percy, Fred, George and even Ginny are all onboard, all able to say Ron and Harry was right behind them - and yet they didn't show up! I'm betting poor Hermione was quite worried...  :(

Ron and Harry, on the other hand, are for at least the start of the journey having a great party up in the air! Unresponsible and childish - in every bit acting their age! :P But thoroughly enjoying themselves, and leaving all worry to others! Not even when the uneventful journey starts to bore them, do they fall back to worrying over the weird warning Harry's got or how they are going to explain the car or anything else - until... the car starts to show signs of fatigue, and they have a problem they handle by ignoring it... Still all kids, still a mostly safe world...



At 13 there are a tangible threat around: the lunatic mass murderer, Sirius Black, is not only at large and (supposedly) a real threat to everyone - but most especially to Harry! The train journey that might otherwise have been as happy as that one two years ago, becomes partly filled with sincere talk among the trio about this fact: Ron and Hermione both becomes extremely worried for their friends safety - Harry still mostly worried that there will be no opportunity for playful adventures if everyone is going to try to keep him safe all the time...  :mcgonagall2:

And then the Dementors, who decide to check the train, causing unhappiness and sometimes terrors in their wake. Harry, suddenly, is forced to take some of the danger to him seriously, as the foul creatures plunge him straight to a nightmarish  "condition".  Perhaps, in a way, POA is the first year where he has to learn to live with a more constant danger on a personal level?  :ron:



At 14 the train journey comes right after the terrible events on the aftermath of the QWC and the threat from the 70's are starting to cast ever-longer shadows. The world seems more dangerous than ever before. At the same time, knowing what the future holds, this is also the last year in which the world is still mainly a safe place where the ethical valours are kept in high regard and the society is still normal (as normal as the Wizarding World ever is, anyway).

As for Harrry, he has grown a lot since last year, and learnt to be able to overcome his fears and produce a real, corporeal Patronus when the need was dire. In a sense this ought to be a comfort: he now knows he can trust his abilities when he most needs it. At the same time this is probably the most normal train journey the trio ever has, during all of their years at Hogwarts. It's mostly spent chatting with various friends, after all.



At 15, everything has changed. Supposedly, according to the Ministry nothing is wrong, nothing particularly bad has happenned. And yet, in this all "normal" time, the Ministry of Magic has seen fit to launch a very tasteless slander campaign on Professor Dumbledore and young Harry Potter! Laws are changing, the school's under pressure... Yet nothing's wrong except an old man growing older and a young man seeking attention?  :mcgonagall2: Convincing, is it....?

Harry, who, thanks to the slander of The Daily Prophet, the supposed News magazine, is shunned by next to everyone is forced to share a train compartment with Neville and Luna, the two least cool persons at all of Hogwarts, according to common beliefs! So while Harry is relieved to actually be able to go back to school after the threat of expulsion, he is also deprived of his two dearest friends because he didn't become a Prefect - something he is secretly jealous of Ron for being... This isn't a particularly happy journey, but one where he becomes all to aware of the damage the Daily Prophet has done to his reputation. To make matters even worse, Harry is in acute mourning of the father figure he once had. :console: Only recently he had to deal with the full court for saving his own and his cousin's lives. He is in no condition to deal with the pressures comming in to him from all sides - and to top it off he is at his worst point ever in his teen moods. This is no happy journey at all...



A year later, and Harry has done an amazing amount of growing up. By now, the wizarding world is in fully fledged war, and Harry is truly comming into his own. One of the most moving ways in which this growth is shown is, I think the difference in this:

Quote
[OOP page 170 BHE]
Harry slumped back in his seat and groaned. He would have liked Cho to discover him sitting with a group of very cool people laughing their heads off at a joke he had just told: he would not have chosen to be sitting with Neville and Loony Lovegood, clutching a toad and dripping in Stinksap.

versus:

Quote
[HBP page 133 BHE]
"They're friends of mine, " said Harry coldly.
....
"People expect you to have cooler friends than us, " said Luna...
"You are cool, " said Harry shortly. "None of them was at the Ministry. They didn't fight with me."
:thumbup: There's an awful lot of growing up between these two encounters, I think.


So, what are YOUR thoughts on the growth and changes of successive 1 September's ?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 12:14:56 PM by Evreka »
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September 01, 2015, 08:26:59 PM
Reply #5

roonwit

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We have a September 1st update from Jo's twitter feed, with a bit of information about a couple of minor characters.
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September 02, 2015, 07:53:24 PM
Reply #6

Evreka

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We have a September 1st update from Jo's twitter feed, with a bit of information about a couple of minor characters.
I just saw it, and awwww, we finally have a Potter at Hogwarts again!  :stars: I remember when Teddy began  :love: (because we'd been doing The Quibbler for about a year, with not a single canon character at Hogwarts). It felt good to have him there.  :) And now it's James Sirius turn...  :hug:

I would have guessed that Teddy would be a Gryffindor like Remus, but I actually like that he was Sorted into Hufflepuff as his mum, giving them the glory. :) And I love that he's Head Boy to boot! 

Did anyone else think Teddy would be a Hufflepuff?


... Wait a minute... Does this mean James Sirius is two years older than Albus Severus? :crabbegoyle: Or is it another take on Jo's math?
May 1998 + 19 = 2017 for the epilogue.... On the other hand, most fans know that Albus Dumbledore died in June 1997 (because it was the June that followed after autumn -96), whereas his dates on Chocolate Frog cards of her making says he died 1996. She seems to always ignore to add a year at New Year's. So maybe, in her mind, the epilogues "19 years later" starts from 1997? In which case Albus Severus is just a year younger anyway...

What do you think?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 08:05:00 PM by Evreka »
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September 03, 2015, 05:19:48 PM
Reply #7

HealerOne

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Did anyone else think Teddy would be a Hufflepuff?


... Wait a minute... Does this mean James Sirius is two years older than Albus Severus? :crabbegoyle: Or is it another take on Jo's math?
May 1998 + 19 = 2017 for the epilogue.... On the other hand, most fans know that Albus Dumbledore died in June 1997 (because it was the June that followed after autumn -96), whereas his dates on Chocolate Frog cards of her making says he died 1996. She seems to always ignore to add a year at New Year's. So maybe, in her mind, the epilogues "19 years later" starts from 1997? In which case Albus Severus is just a year younger anyway...

What do you think?
I truly thought Teddy would have been a Gryffindor.   :gryffindorc: WooHoo that he is Head Boy! I'm not sure if Tonks would have been proud or a bit disappointed (That he wasn't as 'wild' as she was. Must be the influence of Harry ...).

As for the dates? Me thinks it is JKR's fuzzy math again!
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September 03, 2015, 08:13:50 PM
Reply #8

Evreka

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Did anyone else think Teddy would be a Hufflepuff?


... Wait a minute... Does this mean James Sirius is two years older than Albus Severus? :crabbegoyle: Or is it another take on Jo's math?
May 1998 + 19 = 2017 for the epilogue.... On the other hand, most fans know that Albus Dumbledore died in June 1997 (because it was the June that followed after autumn -96), whereas his dates on Chocolate Frog cards of her making says he died 1996. She seems to always ignore to add a year at New Year's. So maybe, in her mind, the epilogues "19 years later" starts from 1997? In which case Albus Severus is just a year younger anyway...

What do you think?
I truly thought Teddy would have been a Gryffindor.   :gryffindorc: WooHoo that he is Head Boy! I'm not sure if Tonks would have been proud or a bit disappointed (That he wasn't as 'wild' as she was. Must be the influence of Harry ...).
...
:what: Why would Tonks be disappointed?  :crabbegoyle: Tonks :tonks: was a Hufflepuff if I remember correctly, whereas Remus of course was a Gryffindor.
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September 03, 2015, 11:12:30 PM
Reply #9

roonwit

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I would have guessed that Teddy would be a Gryffindor like Remus, but I actually like that he was Sorted into Hufflepuff as his mum, giving them the glory. :) And I love that he's Head Boy to boot! 

Did anyone else think Teddy would be a Hufflepuff?
I hadn't really thought about it, probably lazily assuming Teddy would be in Gryffindor like his father. We don't really know enough about him to guess a house but it is nice he was head boy (challenging the prejudices of those who would be surprised at the son of a werewolf doing so well).
... Wait a minute... Does this mean James Sirius is two years older than Albus Severus? :crabbegoyle: Or is it another take on Jo's math?
Well, two school years older, which might be an age gap of just over 1 year to just less than 3 years depending on birthdays. I suspect Jo's maths is right this time as she had plenty of time to plan this tweet, and around a two year gap seems more likely.
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September 04, 2015, 01:05:11 AM
Reply #10

ss19

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Thank you for the link, roonwit!


I would have guessed that Teddy would be a Gryffindor like Remus, but I actually like that he was Sorted into Hufflepuff as his mum, giving them the glory. :) And I love that he's Head Boy to boot! 

Did anyone else think Teddy would be a Hufflepuff?
Teddy sorting into Hufflepuff makes perfect sense to me.  We've been told that he is a Metamorphmagus like his mother was.  Makes sense that he would take after his mother more than he does his father, and sort into Hufflepuff.  Not to mention the fact that he was raised by the same person that raised his mother, so that both nature and nurture may have pointed in the same direction.


... Wait a minute... Does this mean James Sirius is two years older than Albus Severus? :crabbegoyle: Or is it another take on Jo's math?
All the information we have now does place James Sirius's age 2 school years above his brother Albus Severus.  Since we have no other information that would contradict this, I see no reason to doubt Jo's math on this.

Teddy staring his 7th year at Hogwarts in 2015 also fits the timeline perfectly as he would have turned 17th in the spring.


Did anyone else think Teddy would be a Hufflepuff?


... Wait a minute... Does this mean James Sirius is two years older than Albus Severus? :crabbegoyle: Or is it another take on Jo's math?
May 1998 + 19 = 2017 for the epilogue.... On the other hand, most fans know that Albus Dumbledore died in June 1997 (because it was the June that followed after autumn -96), whereas his dates on Chocolate Frog cards of her making says he died 1996. She seems to always ignore to add a year at New Year's. So maybe, in her mind, the epilogues "19 years later" starts from 1997? In which case Albus Severus is just a year younger anyway...

What do you think?
I truly thought Teddy would have been a Gryffindor.   :gryffindorc: WooHoo that he is Head Boy! I'm not sure if Tonks would have been proud or a bit disappointed (That he wasn't as 'wild' as she was. Must be the influence of Harry ...).
...
:what: Why would Tonks be disappointed?  :crabbegoyle: Tonks :tonks: was a Hufflepuff if I remember correctly, whereas Remus of course was a Gryffindor.
I think HealerOne was referring to Teddy being Head Boy, not to him sorting into Hufflepuff, that Tonks may have been disappointed that Teddy became Head Boy and wasn't as "wild" as she was.

Maybe I'm missing something, but we don't know that Tonks was wild growing up, do we?  Also, James was wild (depending on what you mean by "wild") and still became Head Boy, so Teddy could have been wild too and still become Head Boy.
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September 04, 2015, 05:33:03 PM
Reply #11

Evreka

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I would have guessed that Teddy would be a Gryffindor like Remus, but I actually like that he was Sorted into Hufflepuff as his mum, giving them the glory. :) And I love that he's Head Boy to boot! 

Did anyone else think Teddy would be a Hufflepuff?
I hadn't really thought about it, probably lazily assuming Teddy would be in Gryffindor like his father. We don't really know enough about him to guess a house but it is nice he was head boy (challenging the prejudices of those who would be surprised at the son of a werewolf doing so well).
I hadn't really considered the prejudice from being a son of a werewolf, but that makes it even greater he's Head Boy!  :love:


I would have guessed that Teddy would be a Gryffindor like Remus, but I actually like that he was Sorted into Hufflepuff as his mum, giving them the glory. :) And I love that he's Head Boy to boot! 

Did anyone else think Teddy would be a Hufflepuff?
Teddy sorting into Hufflepuff makes perfect sense to me.  We've been told that he is a Metamorphmagus like his mother was.  Makes sense that he would take after his mother more than he does his father, and sort into Hufflepuff.  Not to mention the fact that he was raised by the same person that raised his mother, so that both nature and nurture may have pointed in the same direction.
Good point in being raised by the same person as his mum was, presumably teaching the same values to him. And I also guess that Teddy might have wished quite often that his Mum (and possibly also his Dad) hadn't been quite so courageous or he might have got to know at least one of them.  :'( So courage might not be all boon as far as he is concerned, steering him away from Gryffindor. Maybe?


... Wait a minute... Does this mean James Sirius is two years older than Albus Severus? :crabbegoyle: Or is it another take on Jo's math?
All the information we have now does place James Sirius's age 2 school years above his brother Albus Severus.  Since we have no other information that would contradict this, I see no reason to doubt Jo's math on this.

Teddy staring his 7th year at Hogwarts in 2015 also fits the timeline perfectly as he would have turned 17th in the spring.
Well, Teddy was born in April 1998. He turned 11 in April 2009, so he began Hogwarts 1st year in September 2009. He is due to start his 7th year so that much adds up. BUT...

Victoire Weasley, whom he is snogging in the epilogue, is still in school then. She was born 2 May 1999 according to info from Jo earlier, explaining her name. Wasn't she? And if so, she will be in her 7th year next year. Which is 18 years after the Battle of Hogwarts, not 19 years after it.

Also, the letter discussion between Albus and his parents in the epilogue make it sound as if James was just one year ahead of Albus...   :crabbegoyle:   ;)



I truly thought Teddy would have been a Gryffindor.   :gryffindorc: WooHoo that he is Head Boy! I'm not sure if Tonks would have been proud or a bit disappointed (That he wasn't as 'wild' as she was. Must be the influence of Harry ...).
...
:what: Why would Tonks be disappointed?  :crabbegoyle: Tonks :tonks: was a Hufflepuff if I remember correctly, whereas Remus of course was a Gryffindor.
I think HealerOne was referring to Teddy being Head Boy, not to him sorting into Hufflepuff, that Tonks may have been disappointed that Teddy became Head Boy and wasn't as "wild" as she was.

Maybe I'm missing something, but we don't know that Tonks was wild growing up, do we?  Also, James was wild (depending on what you mean by "wild") and still became Head Boy, so Teddy could have been wild too and still become Head Boy.
Oh, that makes a lot more sense!  :) I guess I failed to see why any parent (except possibly George Weasley) would be even slightly disappointed that their kid got the most honourable title Head Boy! But I understand what HealerOne meant now. Thanks, ss19!

I think we do know something about Tonks youth, I just can't put my thumb on it right now...  :hmm: Does she say it herself? Or am I thinking of an interview of Jo? I miss the Quick Quote Quill website....
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September 04, 2015, 05:37:39 PM
Reply #12

HealerOne

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What do you think?

I truly thought Teddy would have been a Gryffindor.   :gryffindorc: WooHoo that he is Head Boy! I'm not sure if Tonks would have been proud or a bit disappointed (That he wasn't as 'wild' as she was. Must be the influence of Harry ...).
...
:what: Why would Tonks be disappointed?  :crabbegoyle: Tonks :tonks: was a Hufflepuff if I remember correctly, whereas Remus of course was a Gryffindor.
I think HealerOne was referring to Teddy being Head Boy, not to him sorting into Hufflepuff, that Tonks may have been disappointed that Teddy became Head Boy and wasn't as "wild" as she was.

Maybe I'm missing something, but we don't know that Tonks was wild growing up, do we?  Also, James was wild (depending on what you mean by "wild") and still became Head Boy, so Teddy could have been wild too and still become Head Boy.

Yes, I was referring to Tonk's statement In OotP that her Head of House (Sprout) said she did not have certain qualities necessary to be a Head Girl - specifically,  "To behave myself." I took that to mean Tonks was on the 'wild side'.

Interesting your comment comparing James and Tonks - I would think in Hufflepuff not 'behaving yourself' would be a detriment to being a Prefect considering that Hufflepuffs are known more for their even temperateness. While in Gyiffindor, being outspoken, brave, and taking chances would be a characteristic that would be favorable to being a Prefect.

Edited to state James instaed of Harry - sorry.

Fixed your quote problems. /Evreka
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 04:44:56 PM by Evreka »
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September 05, 2015, 04:58:26 PM
Reply #13

Evreka

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...
Interesting your comment comparing James and Tonks - I would think in Hufflepuff not 'behaving yourself' would be a detriment to being a Prefect considering that Hufflepuffs are known more for their even temperateness. While in Gyiffindor, being outspoken, brave, and taking chances would be a characteristic that would be favorable to being a Prefect.
Interresting thought that Prefects might be chosen on different grounds in the different Houses!   :hmm: I wonder if that could be so? I always assumed it had a more unifying ground, and was more related to behaving well and be reasonably good at school subjects. How does the Prefect system in non-magical Brittish schools work? Does anyone know on what grounds Prefects are chosen?

However, even if Prefects are chosen on different grounds for different Houses, surely the positions Head Boy and Head Girl ought to be chosen on the same grounds for any 7th year, regardless of House. And we don't know whether Teddy was a Prefect in the two preceding school years, but James was never a Prefect, Remus was. So James and Teddy only share the honour of being Head Boy. On the other hand, if Teddy was a Prefect, he'd be like his Dad in that regard. :lupin:
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September 07, 2015, 12:23:49 AM
Reply #14

roonwit

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Victoire Weasley, whom he is snogging in the epilogue, is still in school then. She was born 2 May 1999 according to info from Jo earlier, explaining her name. Wasn't she? And if so, she will be in her 7th year next year. Which is 18 years after the Battle of Hogwarts, not 19 years after it.
We were told that Victoire was born on the anniversary of the battle of Hogwarts, but that doesn't necessarily mean the first anniversary. I assumed it was actually the second anniversary, though I can't remember if Jo ever confirmed that to be the case or not.
Yes, I was referring to Tonk's statement In OotP that her Head of House (Sprout) said she did not have certain qualities necessary to be a Head Girl - specifically,  "To behave myself." I took that to mean Tonks was on the 'wild side'.
That was actually a discussion about being a prefect, not head girl. Of course Lupin was a prefect, though not Head Boy, which was James.
Interesting your comment comparing James and Tonks - I would think in Hufflepuff not 'behaving yourself' would be a detriment to being a Prefect considering that Hufflepuffs are known more for their even temperateness. While in Gyiffindor, being outspoken, brave, and taking chances would be a characteristic that would be favorable to being a Prefect.
I suspect that many different characteristics are taken into account in choosing prefects for every house. I don't think misbehaviour would necessarily be a disqualification, but it would depend on the other qualities of that person. James did misbehave a lot, though presumably rather less so (or at least was caught misbehaving less) in his final year, but his saving of Snape and leadership qualities could outweigh that, and I wouldn't rule out Dumbledore having ulterior motives in making him head boy, for example perhaps to encourage behaviour which would prepare him for the Order when he left school.
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