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Author Topic: Cormoran, Robin & other Characters  (Read 8097 times)

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October 20, 2015, 08:33:07 PM

Evreka

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So, what are your thoughts on the journey Cormoran, Robin and other main characters have taken in this book, as well as during the series (where applicable)? Were there anything new that we learned about them in this book that was particularly endearing or revolting? What do you think of the way the characters act and interact, now?

Are there any characters that you've changed your mind about, compared to the earlier books?

What new or remaining questions do you have of any characters and what will happen to them in the future?  :sherlock:

We'd love to hear your opinions!
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October 25, 2015, 12:36:01 PM
Reply #1

Evreka

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I have several gripes with this crime story:
 
I didn't like the lack of true interaction between Robin and Cormoran for most of the book. They never really discussed the case within "ear shot" of our readers, indeed they hardly met at all! :( And this interaction was a main part of what I liked with The Cuckoo's Calling.

I can't help but think that Robin doesn't love Matthew at all and that she just went on with the wedding in spite. How stupid can an intelligent character get?  :what:

I don't like the last few chapters at all.  :annoyed: I kept thinking that there'd come something out of Matthew's treachery of deleting Cormoran's call in such an obvious and blatant way... but no?

And what about tough Shanker who does nothing for free, suddenly being all generous and knightly?  :annoyed: Did that ring true to the rest of you?

...

And yet.... I liked reading it for most of the book?  :mcgonagall2: How come?

What do others think?
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October 27, 2015, 08:58:02 PM
Reply #2

HealerOne

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:whew: I just finished the book. That was quite the ride :broomstick:  As this thread is about the characters, here is my take.

Cormoran: I must say, I was a bit surprised, considering his first-hand knowledge of child abuse, that he wasn't more apt to support Robin's intuition about the known pedophile living with a woman and her children. He is a complicated man! His relationship with Elin does not seem to be going anywhere. I think she is a rebound girlfriend from Charlotte.

Robin: For some reason Mathew's support when Robin was going through her recovery from a rape and his subsequent ability to try to support her in her need to work as a detective (however misguided that seems to be) may have fooled Robin into thinking that Mathew really did care for her. I was surprised that she was able to forgive him for diddling with her best friend while she was recovering from the rape.

Mathew:
He is the one character I am most confused about. I thought his demeanor when he showed up at the hospital when Robin had been attacked did demonstrate that he has deep feelings for her. That said - Does he really love Robin? He obviously cares for her, but is it a matter of he can't figure out what else he would do with himself if she was out if his life vs he can't live without her?   
 
Shanker: A couple of things - Robin asked him to help her out, and she got hurt. He was unable to catch the guy. He sort of owes her for that. Secondly, I think he genuinely likes Robin and therefore does Cormoran the favor of driving him to the wedding without immediate monetary gain. I also think he is pretty astute to realize that Cormoran will being coming into some money from all this and that he is good for his word of paying him back. Even though this character is a strange one, he is growing on me. Maybe its the background story of him being rescued by Strike's mother ...

Allysia: I have a feeling we may be seeing more of her in the future. What do you think?
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November 04, 2015, 07:04:14 PM
Reply #3

HealerOne

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Now speaking of conclusions…… the last chapter…. hell… the last sentence….. how could she leave us hanging….. thoughts please !!!!    Has Robin married the twit or not.    How could a man standing there stony faced in front of his stony faced bride go further with proceedings when it's Strike's presence that brings on her beaming smile… and her I DO is directed at Cormoran.       I don't think I'll last a year before we find out !!!
Unfortunately - I am no fan of Matthew - my take on it is that she married Matthew, but also that she does so in spite. ...
I am with you Evreka that Robin did marry Matthew, but will it "take"? I can see Robin being happy for a time, but if Matthew goes back to haranguing her about working with Strike, then I am not too sure she will be happy in the marriage. The one thing which might make a difference is if Matthew is involved in some way in one of the cases. I wonder if this might be a way that Robin would either realize she really does love him, or it might shed light on all of his faults.

Back to the possibilities that Conchie brought up! Wouldn't that be a hoot if the whole ceremony was stopped and Robin backed out of the marriage? I could see JKR ... er ... Galbraith making such a twist, just to keep the readers on their toes! Just the thought makes waiting for the next book very difficult!

I must admit I seem to be reading the Strike series, less for the interesting detective stories, and more to find out where this Strike/Robin relationship is going! Does anyone else feel that?



Added relevant quote from Did you Solve the Murder Mystery in Full or in Parts Yourself? /Evreka
« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 01:56:57 PM by Evreka »
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November 04, 2015, 08:37:13 PM
Reply #4

Evreka

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The following is a quote from the Book board:
There is an audio clip of Jo speaks on writing as Robert Galbraith here. There are spoilers on Career of Evil, and a longer interview here.
I'm reposting them in here, because here we can comment on them despite the spoilers within.

I loved both of these interviews, and I found it especially interesting that Jo sees the pair Robin and Cormoran as equally strong detectives in the novels. It's nice to hear, seeing as Robin is my favourite between them - but it's a surprising comment given how the book ends! How on earth is Cormoran going to get her back?  :o Do you think we're going to see this reunion unfold or will we just be reintrotuced to them, months later, with a short description that they sorted their problems?

What will it take for Cormoran to get her back?
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November 04, 2015, 10:29:09 PM
Reply #5

Conchie

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I am with you Evreka that Robin did marry Matthew, but will it "take"? I can see Robin being happy for a time, but if Matthew goes back to haranguing her about working with Strike, then I am not too sure she will be happy in the marriage. The one thing which might make a difference is if Matthew is involved in some way in one of the cases. I wonder if this might be a way that Robin would either realize she really does love him, or it might shed light on all of his faults.

Back to the possibilities that Conchie brought up! Wouldn't that be a hoot if the whole ceremony was stopped and Robin backed out of the marriage? I could see JKR ... er ... Galbraith making such a twist, just to keep the readers on their toes! Just the thought makes waiting for the next book very difficult!

I must admit I seem to be reading the Strike series, less for the interesting detective stories, and more to find out where this Strike/Robin relationship is going! Does anyone else feel that?

RG did something quite unusual here in the last lines…. she gave us a conclusion more suitable to a Christmas Day East Enders episode.  I almost could hear the DUFF DUFF DUFF  beat going off as I said to myself.. NOOOOOO…. you can't just end it like that and leave us hanging for a year.      However…. if the countdown to Career of Evil coming out was exciting, can you only imagine the frenzy everyone will be in for the next one as we all go ballistic to find out just what did happen !!!!        My few suggestions re the outcome are as follows:    1.   Robin, beaming with joy as she sees Cormoran realises only at that moment that she can't marry Matthew, and turns to him on the altar and says… I'm so sorry… I can't do this.      2.    The ceremony concludes and outside the church Cormoran walks up to her and says, I wasn't sure you would want  me here when you didn't answer my calls.   Cue the whole saga coming out re Matthew and his deleting the calls and she walks out on him before the reception even starts.    3.   She marries the dullard and gets on with it.   

Given the Robin/Cormoran chemistry and it's unfolding,  it is a huge part of the success of the books, I can't see her in an active marriage to Matthew in the new book.    I think it would ruin the dynamic, and RG certainly fed her audience with so much chemistry in this book, that won't be erased now.      I also think the most heart melting line in the whole book came from Shanker.    "she's like your mum said Shanker, after a long silence.  Who is ?   Your Robin.  Kind "     To equate Robin to Leda, who in spite of her failings was a mother Cormoran loved, and to call her YOUR ROBIN.    Well if that didn't melt the big man's innards, I don't know what could.   It certainly made me dissolve in pure awwwww !!      RG didn't write that for nothing !      I LOVE Shanker… I really hope he is now a regular character and the three of them go forward into book 4.     
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 08:03:15 PM by Evreka »
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November 05, 2015, 06:07:14 PM
Reply #6

HealerOne

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I like the possible scenarios you came up with Conchie. I think a key question for the outcome of this wedding is: "At what point does Robin find out Matthew deleted Strike's messages?" If she finds out after the marriage is done - after she 'gets on with it' - then what? Will the betrayal be enough that she would have the marriage annulled? Or will it be a splinter that drives a wedge in the marriage over time?  Or will Robin see this as a forgivable pre-wedding mistake due to Matthew's jitters? Lots of possibilities!   

I also think the most heart melting line in the whole book came from Shanker.    "she's like your mum said Shanker, after a long silence.  Who is ?   Your Robin.  Kind "     To equate Robin to Leda, who in spite of her failings was a mother Cormoran loved, and to call her YOUR ROBIN.    Well if that didn't melt the big man's innards, I don't know what could.   It certainly made me dissolve in pure awwwww !!      RG didn't write that for nothing !      I LOVE Shanker… I really hope he is now a regular character and the three of them go forward into book 4.     

Shanker has become a most interesting character from Strike's past (much more so than say, Striker's sister). I, too, hope he appears in the books to come.

Now that line about Robin being like his Mother, I would think it would hit Strike pretty hard. For one thing, Striker wants to be a very independent person and I don't think he would look kindly on any woman, much less Robin, 'taking care of him'. On the other hand, if Strike looked on this comment as saying Robin cared about him as his mother did, then I think he would take the comment as a kind one. Somehow I have a hard time seeing that line indicating that Strike is looking at Robin as a love partner, but maybe I am wrong. That's my take on it.
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November 08, 2015, 08:32:22 AM
Reply #7

Evreka

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Unfortunately - I am no fan of Matthew - my take on it is that she married Matthew, but also that she does so in spite. ...
I am with you Evreka that Robin did marry Matthew, but will it "take"? I can see Robin being happy for a time, but if Matthew goes back to haranguing her about working with Strike, then I am not too sure she will be happy in the marriage. The one thing which might make a difference is if Matthew is involved in some way in one of the cases. I wonder if this might be a way that Robin would either realize she really does love him, or it might shed light on all of his faults.
I have a lot of gripes with this ending:
1) How will Strike win her back to his office at all? He fired her and Matthew won't be keen to see her go back!
2) His tampering with her phone shows clearly that he isn't open with her. It's a kind of patronising that I can't see Robin being either OK with or likely to forget in a hurry!  :furious: Is he going to drop it in the ocean while on honeymoon, to cover up for it? But if he does, back to question 1.....
3) If not before so when she does reconnect with Strike, won't she find out about Matthews betrayal with the phone sooner or later? Which leads back to question 2.....
4) Neither of the books have taken up where the previous one ended... So does this mean we will not even get to follow up on what goes on here?!?  :annoyed:  >:(  :o

What does the rest of you think?!


Now speaking of conclusions…… the last chapter…. hell… the last sentence….. how could she leave us hanging….. thoughts please !!!!    Has Robin married the twit or not.    How could a man standing there stony faced in front of his stony faced bride go further with proceedings when it's Strike's presence that brings on her beaming smile… and her I DO is directed at Cormoran.       I don't think I'll last a year before we find out !!!

... Back to the possibilities that Conchie brought up! Wouldn't that be a hoot if the whole ceremony was stopped and Robin backed out of the marriage? I could see JKR ... er ... Galbraith making such a twist, just to keep the readers on their toes! Just the thought makes waiting for the next book very difficult!
Well, personally, I think there are a lot of twists and turns when it comes to this ending and the relationships between Robin, Matthew and Cormoran. And I'd just love to know how they're going to sort it all out. If they are... It's clear (in my mind at least) that Robin and Cormoran would be way better off with each other than any of the relationships we've seen so far...



I must admit I seem to be reading the Strike series, less for the interesting detective stories, and more to find out where this Strike/Robin relationship is going! Does anyone else feel that?
Weeelll, I wouldn't describe it thus, because I do read them (or at least have done so previously) primarily as detective stories - or so I thought.  :-\ But... given what my gripes are, and which parts of the story that engage me most after I finished the book... it's definitely a huge part of what engage me. And interestingly, I am far more eager to discuss this aspect than the crime story... So, you've definitely got a point. :)


RG did something quite unusual here in the last lines…. ... I said to myself.. NOOOOOO…. you can't just end it like that and leave us hanging for a year.  ...
   
Precisely! That was cruel...


Given the Robin/Cormoran chemistry and it's unfolding,  it is a huge part of the success of the books, I can't see her in an active marriage to Matthew in the new book.    I think it would ruin the dynamic, and RG certainly fed her audience with so much chemistry in this book, that won't be erased now.      ...
Well, I certainly can't see their marriage working. They are way too different as people in what they want to achieve, what's important and their priorities. Also, Matthew's way of showing affection hasn't impressed me much, so far. And throughout Career of Evil, we've seen Robin ignore calls, sms', and cards from Matthew with ease. It's not the way a woman in love behaves....  :shake: On this shaky ground there is no way this marriage will work.

But at what point will we be reintroduced to them? On the wedding day? Honeymoon? On the first time after? When the marriage begins to fall apart? Or during divorce time? Later? She could make several chapters worth of interesting reading based on this ending alone - but will she? I can't really see that, partly as no previous books have been back to back in time frame and partly because the books centre on murder mysteries and not personal relationships. In this case, frustrating!  :P 


I also think the most heart melting line in the whole book came from Shanker.    "she's like your mum said Shanker, after a long silence.  Who is ?   Your Robin.  Kind "     To equate Robin to Leda, who in spite of her failings was a mother Cormoran loved, and to call her YOUR ROBIN.    Well if that didn't melt the big man's innards, I don't know what could.   It certainly made me dissolve in pure awwwww !!      ...    I LOVE Shanker… I really hope he is now a regular character and the three of them go forward into book 4.   
I'm not sure it melted Cormoran's heart, but it did warm mine. :) I think Leda was probably one of few people Shanker has loved in his life, so what a comparision!  :thumbup:


I like the possible scenarios you came up with Conchie. I think a key question for the outcome of this wedding is: "At what point does Robin find out Matthew deleted Strike's messages?" If she finds out after the marriage is done - after she 'gets on with it' - then what? Will the betrayal be enough that she would have the marriage annulled? Or will it be a splinter that drives a wedge in the marriage over time?  Or will Robin see this as a forgivable pre-wedding mistake due to Matthew's jitters? Lots of possibilities!   
I think that she didn't know it when the wedding took place, but at what point will she find out - indeed? A quick divorce or yet another splinter to the marriage...? But forgiving it quietly - and much less easily? I certainly hope not!


Shanker has become a most interesting character from Strike's past (much more so than say, Striker's sister). I, too, hope he appears in the books to come. ....
I tend to agree about this... :)
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 08:38:41 AM by Evreka »
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November 09, 2015, 03:58:01 PM
Reply #8

Conchie

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The following is a quote from the Book board:
There is an audio clip of Jo speaks on writing as Robert Galbraith here. There are spoilers on Career of Evil, and a longer interview here.
...

I loved both of these interviews, and I found it especially interesting that Jo sees the pair Robin and Cormoran as equally strong detectives in the novels. It's nice to hear, seeing as Robin is my favourite between them - but it's a surprising comment given how the book ends! How on earth is Cormoran going to get her back?  :o Do you think we're going to see this reunion unfold or will we just be reintrotuced to them, months later, with a short description that they sorted their problems?

What will it take for Cormoran to get her back?


I think without doubt the timeline will have moved forward weeks or probably months when the next book begins.     Cormoran will be well recovered from his injuries and physically ready to tackle whatever the next case is.     I'm guessing business will be good again given the publicity that his third solving of a case ahead of  the police will bring.     I also think Robin will be back at work either (God forbid !) boringly married to Matthew with him having no say in the matter given his phone deleting saga… or he will be history and we will hear the dramatic back story of what happened that day.  As I think someone else said, the only interesting way Matthew could be useful at all going forward is if he was linked to an actual case Cormoran was working on, but he bores me so much I can't imagine him doing anything interesting enough to qualify !!   I think it would be far more interesting to go forward with Robin moved into a flat either on her own or with a pal, and Cormoran delighted to have her back but determined not to cross that line.    I have this vision of them racing around the country in the battered land rover with Shanker in the back looking menacing LOL.    Oh I love Shanker….gotta be said. 

Fixed a quote problem. /Evreka
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 06:47:37 PM by Evreka »
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November 09, 2015, 08:30:25 PM
Reply #9

Evreka

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I loved both of these interviews, and I found it especially interesting that Jo sees the pair Robin and Cormoran as equally strong detectives in the novels. It's nice to hear, seeing as Robin is my favourite between them - but it's a surprising comment given how the book ends! How on earth is Cormoran going to get her back?  :o Do you think we're going to see this reunion unfold or will we just be reintrotuced to them, months later, with a short description that they sorted their problems?
I think without doubt the timeline will have moved forward weeks or probably months when the next book begins.     Cormoran will be well recovered from his injuries and physically ready to tackle whatever the next case is.     I'm guessing business will be good again given the publicity that his third solving of a case ahead of  the police will bring.   
Yeah, I tend to agree, but it's such a pity given the drama we're dumped in the middle of!
 

I also think Robin will be back at work either (God forbid !) boringly married to Matthew with him having no say in the matter given his phone deleting saga… or he will be history and we will hear the dramatic back story of what happened that day. 
Yeah, I guess she will be, but I wish we would have been able to see that reunion!


As I think someone else said, the only interesting way Matthew could be useful at all going forward is if he was linked to an actual case Cormoran was working on, but he bores me so much I can't imagine him doing anything interesting enough to qualify !!   
:lol: I tend to agree, I am not fond of that man at all, but I guess he could still be a witness or otherwise getting in trouble - in theory. Most notably, he might be involved in a divorce soon.... ;)  :P However, I can't see Robin choosing Strike, of all people to handle her divorce, so I don't think that particular track is leading anywhere...

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November 10, 2015, 08:57:52 AM
Reply #10

RiverSpirit

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I really think that the marriage did not take place. Robin doesn't love Matthew anymore and she was just going through the motions until Cormoran crashed, literally, the wedding. I think her "I do" was a genuine answer towards the man she was looking at and I don't think it was Matthew. RG has not given us enough background on Matthew to make him endearing. He is just there to annoy us.

But...I don't think a Robin/Cormoran romance is around the corner. Romance kills the suspense. Making them a couple will be challenging. I hope Robin just has the chance to be single for a while. We know they love each other but that won't necessarily make for a great match.

The introduction of Shanker is genius. He is a fabulous character and the opportunities for his involvement are huge.
  
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November 10, 2015, 03:39:19 PM
Reply #11

HealerOne

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RG has not given us enough background on Matthew to make him endearing. He is just there to annoy us.

But...I don't think a Robin/Cormoran romance is around the corner. Romance kills the suspense. Making them a couple will be challenging. I hope Robin just has the chance to be single for a while. We know they love each other but that won't necessarily make for a great match.

I had to laugh at your assessment of Mathew! Annoy us indeed! I do very much agree with you about removing the romance killing the suspense. I do believe the tension between the two main characters is what holds the series together. You take out that tension and the story becomes flat. I think there will be ebbs and tides in the romantic tension in the next story and the stories to come, but it surely will take longer for Strike to recognize his deep fondness for Robin. However Robin may discover this earlier than Strike does - thus keeping the romantic tension high throughout the stories.

Does anyone else think Shanker has similar traits of Ron? Or maybe Ron and Dudley wrapped up together?  :hmm: Maybe a mix of Padfoot, Ron and Dudley?  Just saying ...  :shake: :nod:
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November 11, 2015, 12:28:13 AM
Reply #12

Conchie

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It's enough for us to know that there is an undercurrent of attraction  between Robin and Cormoran.    If RG has any sense that element will be fed now and enhanced as the books unfold, but it would be a huge mistake to just get them together too soon.    Ruins the whole "will they, won't they" which really is the cornerstone of any decent romance.    Get them together too quick and the suspense is ruined.   I'd rather see it bubble away in the background and keep us all happy.         Example of note:    My all time favourite comedy series is Frasier.   One of the key elements  (among many) to the brilliance of Frasier was the Niles/Daphne storyline as Niles worshipped her from afar.    The moment they hooked up, it lost a lot of fizz for me.  I get how they had to settle it eventually and it was right they got together but they should have done it in the final few episodes and be done with it.     Robin and Cormoran need to be handled with care and I think in the capable hands of their creator a sterling job will be done !   
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November 17, 2015, 10:44:54 AM
Reply #13

RiverSpirit

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I really hope there is more in store for Shanker. To introduce Cormoran's oldest friend after all this time is an interesting move by RG. He must have kept him hidden away if Robin was unaware of him and I can see his friendship with Robin blossoming into something great.

I was surprised by the number of "long term" characters that have been introduced. Suddenly those who were only previously mentioned have become "real" and more who are sure to have an ongoing role have been included. This certainly is pointing to many more years of Cormoran and Robin to come.
  
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November 22, 2015, 12:37:12 AM
Reply #14

paint it Black

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Matthew:  I do think he was genuinely sorry and remorseful and hated himself for what he did to Robin with his friend Sarah seven years earlier.  As Robin pointed out several times, he did things not typical of himself (ie. making himself vulnerable) to try to get her to forgive him.  That said, he continued to keep Sarah as a friend for all these years, even though she delighted in creating conflict between the two. :-\ However, Matthew could have chosen to let Robin go and could have easily found solace in Sarah's arms once again.  It seems that whom he really cared for was Robin.  I was starting to thing that maybe things might really be ok between the two of them, until he tampered with her phone....  :furious:

Robin:  What we've learned about Robin (though we sort of knew already) is that she is kind and compassionate.  She was willing to risk her job and her safety to make sure that those young girls were away from Brockbank, a known pedophile.  Something I noticed was that she did not agree to take Matthew back because ultimately he truly demonstrated his love for her.  She gave in when he was crying because he couldn't stand the thought of their relationship really being over.  She couldn't stand to see him suffer.  She said Yes to him to ease his pain.  So, I'm thinking that she might have more compassion for Matthew than love.  I think (correct me if I'm wrong) it was stated somewhere that Matthew is the only sexual partner Robin has ever had (other than the rape), and as he helped her through that difficult time and helped her regain her sexuality, her loyalty to him is likely at least as much out of a feeling of safety and security than it is of gratitude or love.

Strike:  I agree with RiverSpirit that a romance between Cormoran and Robin would kill the suspense, even if they do seem well-matched.  Given that, I was surprised by the number of times Strike seemed to have an almost-romantic thought about Robin, but then instantly quashed it because he knows that such a romance would not help him personally or professionally at the moment.  I did think that the tension would tend to build over time with the two (as in, over the course of several books), but I thought it would take longer for Strike to admit to himself that he possibly has those kind of feelings for her.  I don't think that Robin is having any similar thoughts that she is trying to talk herself out of.  Matthew still provides her with a sense of security, and she is definitely physically attracted to him and not to Strike (though I notice that RG keeps inserting others saying that they are attracted to Strike, like Sarah and the friend of Wardle's wife).  Obviously Elin is attracted to him, but I think the only thing he gets out of that relationship is the sex, and to his credit, he seems to be concluding that this is not enough for him to continue seeing her.

Shanker:  I agree with many of you that he is an interesting addition to the cast of characters, and I'd hope to see more of him in future Strike novels.  But I also thought that of Al Rokeby in The Silkworm, and he wasn't mentioned once in Career of Evil.  As to whether Shanker helped Robin for free... do we know for sure that she didn't pay him?

Lucy:  She's not exactly a really dynamic character, so it was OK with me that she was almost non-existent in this book.  However, I was disappointed in Strike that he could not manage to suck it up for an hour to attend his nephew's birthday party. :( All the kid ever did was like his uncle; why should he be punished for that?

As to the wedding... Robin has certainly married Matthew, as the vicar specifically asked if Robin took Matthew, and also RG tells us that Robin did not look at, "her stony-faced new husband", but instead at Strike.  Will the marriage last, and for how long?  That's the big question! We don't know what happened between the time Matthew erased the phone messages and the wedding day.  Did he confess, but Robin forgave him?  Did Robin find out, and made him make some promises about her career before she agreed to go forward with the wedding?  Does Robin still think that Strike never called her, and she's started thinking about other career plans?  Could Robin be pregnant, so she decided that she'd have to marry Matthew? :o Why were neither the bride nor groom smiling at the wedding (until Robin sees Strike)?  As Conchie said, it's going to be a long wait until we find out what's behind this final scene!

I cannot deny that I enjoy reading about the personal relationship between Strike and Robin and the whole will-they-or-won't-they aspect of it, though I have to say that I'm a bit conflicted about  the prominence that it takes in the story.  I'm not a huge reader of detective novels, so I'm wondering if anyone here who is more of a mystery reader feels that the romance overshadows the detective story too much?  Or do you feel that this could-be romance is simply an added bonus to Galbraith's mysteries?

Cuppa is discussing Harper Lee's Go Set a Watchman.  Please join us!
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November 23, 2015, 08:56:05 PM
Reply #15

roonwit

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Matthew:  I do think he was genuinely sorry and remorseful and hated himself for what he did to Robin with his friend Sarah seven years earlier.  As Robin pointed out several times, he did things not typical of himself (ie. making himself vulnerable) to try to get her to forgive him.  That said, he continued to keep Sarah as a friend for all these years, even though she delighted in creating conflict between the two. :-\ However, Matthew could have chosen to let Robin go and could have easily found solace in Sarah's arms once again.  It seems that whom he really cared for was Robin.  I was starting to thing that maybe things might really be ok between the two of them, until he tampered with her phone....  :furious:
I think the phone thing could have stopped the wedding or perhaps the honeymoon. However I see her "I do" addressed to both Matthew and Strike - she is accepting Matthew as her husband, but she is also answering Strike's implied question - by turning up at the wedding he is showing he has forgiven her and is asking her to come back. She is happy because her dream job as a detective is back on. I think Matthew's best course is to confess to what he has done to her phone while she is still on a high and ask her to leave Strike blocked until the honeymoon is over. He could suggest she gives Strike a few minutes at the reception to discuss the main points of the case (it would probably result in a better honeymoon if Robin knows the key points as I can see her glued to the news as the full story comes out otherwise).

Robin:  What we've learned about Robin (though we sort of knew already) is that she is kind and compassionate.  She was willing to risk her job and her safety to make sure that those young girls were away from Brockbank, a known pedophile.
I think Strike could have handled Robin better here. She isn't going to give up on Zahara and her family, but she might be prepared to wait a few days for the case to finish, particularly if he shares what he knows and plans.

Strike:  I agree with RiverSpirit that a romance between Cormoran and Robin would kill the suspense, even if they do seem well-matched.  Given that, I was surprised by the number of times Strike seemed to have an almost-romantic thought about Robin, but then instantly quashed it because he knows that such a romance would not help him personally or professionally at the moment.
I think Strike is right when he decides that Robin is the marrying kind, and he is definitely not ready for that kind of commitment. Despite what he thinks of Matthew I think he will be glad that Robin is married, providing a firm barrier to romance, meaning Strike can be more relaxed about their working relationship.
Obviously Elin is attracted to him, but I think the only thing he gets out of that relationship is the sex, and to his credit, he seems to be concluding that this is not enough for him to continue seeing her.
I am not sure he has the choice any more after what happened at the resturant (ruining her dress and walking out, then (as far as we know) making no attempt to patch things up.

Shanker:  I agree with many of you that he is an interesting addition to the cast of characters, and I'd hope to see more of him in future Strike novels.  But I also thought that of Al Rokeby in The Silkworm, and he wasn't mentioned once in Career of Evil.  As to whether Shanker helped Robin for free... do we know for sure that she didn't pay him?
I am sure she did pay Shanker, that was why she took the shoes back so she could get the money required. I think Shanker will be a regular character, as Strike will often need someone with criminal connections. I believe Jo hinted in the Simon Mayo book club interview that we would find out more about the Rokebys in future book, so I think Al will be back. Similarly we are likely to see Wardle and Antsis again (I am less sure about Carver, he will have taken a hit after this book, and I can't see him on any major cases but Strike can't always choose what police will be investigating his criminal cases).

Lucy:  She's not exactly a really dynamic character, so it was OK with me that she was almost non-existent in this book.  However, I was disappointed in Strike that he could not manage to suck it up for an hour to attend his nephew's birthday party. :( All the kid ever did was like his uncle; why should he be punished for that?
Lucy isn't going to give up on her brother even if he doesn't turn up to birthday parties, so I think we will see her again, though I think she will remain as a background character, though it might be interesting to see what she is like when her forced out of her comfortable home life.
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November 23, 2015, 09:26:07 PM
Reply #16

Evreka

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Robin:  What we've learned about Robin (though we sort of knew already) is that she is kind and compassionate.  She was willing to risk her job and her safety to make sure that those young girls were away from Brockbank, a known pedophile.  Something I noticed was that she did not agree to take Matthew back because ultimately he truly demonstrated his love for her.  She gave in when he was crying because he couldn't stand the thought of their relationship really being over.  She couldn't stand to see him suffer.  She said Yes to him to ease his pain.  So, I'm thinking that she might have more compassion for Matthew than love.  I think (correct me if I'm wrong) it was stated somewhere that Matthew is the only sexual partner Robin has ever had (other than the rape), and as he helped her through that difficult time and helped her regain her sexuality, her loyalty to him is likely at least as much out of a feeling of safety and security than it is of gratitude or love.
I'm not sure she would have done it, had she realised her job could be at risk:
Quote
Career of Evil (Kindle Locations 7060-7062):
She had imagined him shouting ‘I ought to fire you!’ but not once had she considered that he might actually do it, that everything she had done for him – the risks, the injuries, the insights and the inspirations, the long hours of discomfort and inconvenience – would be washed away, rendered negligible by this one act of well-intentioned disobedience.

But that said, I otherwise agree with what you suggest. I, too, think she got back with Matthew in part because he was crying, in part because of the occasion, cooped up in their mutual home with the romantic wedding on the TV, and also she already knew she wouldn't be able to afford any hint of a nice apartment on her own in London. All of it suggesting a reunion was preferable. So yeah, she's kind and Matthew is safe and was, for a long time, her dream of a boyfriend. Sadly I think he'll be a dream of a husband for a very short time...


Strike:  I agree with RiverSpirit that a romance between Cormoran and Robin would kill the suspense, even if they do seem well-matched.  Given that, I was surprised by the number of times Strike seemed to have an almost-romantic thought about Robin, but then instantly quashed it because he knows that such a romance would not help him personally or professionally at the moment.  I did think that the tension would tend to build over time with the two (as in, over the course of several books), ...
Funnily enough I think Strike has admitted to himself that she is too good looking to be good for him and the engagement ring is the only reason he can let her stay (!) right from the first week in Cuckoo's Calling. As such I think he knows, he'd be interested otherwise. That said, if it took seven books for a certain couple in HP to kiss....  :fredgeorge: It might well take even longer here.


Shanker:  I agree with many of you that he is an interesting addition to the cast of characters, and I'd hope to see more of him in future Strike novels.  But I also thought that of Al Rokeby in The Silkworm, and he wasn't mentioned once in Career of Evil.  As to whether Shanker helped Robin for free... do we know for sure that she didn't pay him?...
On the contrary we know that she payed him:
Quote
Career of Evil (Kindle Locations 6749-6751).
She had three days in which to plan, because she had to wait for her accomplice to get hold of a car and find a gap in his busy schedule. Meanwhile she told Linda that her Jimmy Choos were too tight for her, the style too flashy, and allowed her mother to accompany her as she exchanged them for cash.
She payed him with her Mum's 500 pounds, intended for wedding shoes... However, Shanker did agree to drive Stike up to Robin's wedding here and now, while waiting for the money that payed for the trip.


It's late and my eyes are closing, I'll have to come back to the other points another day.  :)

(roonwit posted while I replied so I haven't read that post yet.)
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 09:29:39 PM by Evreka »
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November 23, 2015, 10:44:33 PM
Reply #17

roonwit

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Slightly off topic, it is Cormoran's birthday today (23rd November) according to this post on Twitter.
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November 25, 2015, 09:08:44 PM
Reply #18

Evreka

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As to the wedding... Robin has certainly married Matthew, as the vicar specifically asked if Robin took Matthew, and also RG tells us that Robin did not look at, "her stony-faced new husband", but instead at Strike.  Will the marriage last, and for how long?  That's the big question! We don't know what happened between the time Matthew erased the phone messages and the wedding day.  Did he confess, but Robin forgave him?  Did Robin find out, and made him make some promises about her career before she agreed to go forward with the wedding? ...
I very much doubt that Robin found out - or indeed was told - that he erased her phone book, particularly for that reason. That said, I wouldn't put it past Matthew to lie about how it got erased. And as far as Matthew was concerned, Robin would never meet Cormoran again after that cut phone call, so if he just covered up for himself, the truth would never get out. However... What happens after the wedding ceremony as such ends?

Since we know that more books around the two of them are planned, Cormoran must somehow be able to placate her and make her come back to his office - unless, in the next book she'll be working at the MET?! Do you think that could be a possibility?!

But if Cormoran and Robin gets talking, how long will it be before they get to the cut phone calls and their significance? I think the bombshell of the erased phone call lists, was yet to come at the final scene in this book - even if it may well be months after Robin's discovery at the start of the next one.


... As Conchie said, it's going to be a long wait until we find out what's behind this final scene!

I cannot deny that I enjoy reading about the personal relationship between Strike and Robin and the whole will-they-or-won't-they aspect of it, though I have to say that I'm a bit conflicted about  the prominence that it takes in the story.  I'm not a huge reader of detective novels, so I'm wondering if anyone here who is more of a mystery reader feels that the romance overshadows the detective story too much?  Or do you feel that this could-be romance is simply an added bonus to Galbraith's mysteries?
The interesting thing is that right from the start with Cuckoo's Calling, I've been more endeared by the camaraderie between Robin and Cormoran, than by the murder mystery. And that camaraderie is something I miss seeing (as much) of in the two later books. In The Silkworm, Robin is mostly disappointed and touchy, in the Career of Evil we see quite little of the two of them together (doing their work as a team and discussing their cases). And to leave us at such a time!  :annoyed: So to me, this relationship and how it evolves is what make me quite eager to read the next one - far more than getting another murder story as such, I think.  :hmm: 

But at the same time, I've enjoyed reading the mysteries as well. And these books are far from the only ones that has other stories or sub plots running in parallel to the murder mystery in crime stories. There are more often than not, a lot about the main detectives/police characters personal lives thrown in as well. And not so seldom also a lot from the murderers perspective.


I think the phone thing could have stopped the wedding or perhaps the honeymoon. However I see her "I do" addressed to both Matthew and Strike - she is accepting Matthew as her husband, but she is also answering Strike's implied question - by turning up at the wedding he is showing he has forgiven her and is asking her to come back. She is happy because her dream job as a detective is back on. I think Matthew's best course is to confess to what he has done to her phone while she is still on a high and ask her to leave Strike blocked until the honeymoon is over. He could suggest she gives Strike a few minutes at the reception to discuss the main points of the case (it would probably result in a better honeymoon if Robin knows the key points as I can see her glued to the news as the full story comes out otherwise).
I, too, expected that phone incident to stop the wedding from happening, but as it did...  :ron: I suppose Robin does not yet know about it.

I wonder if she really read in all that in that instantly at seeing Cormoran?  I'm still inclined to think she married Matthew in spite, to show Cormoran that all is well and she can take her being fired and yet become happy (on the surface that is). I guess time will tell... But we know that Matthew has very little imagination and I can't imagine him wanting to discuss what happened to her phone on their wedding day. So I doubt he'd be at all happy to give Robin and Cormoran any time together on the wedding. Now, whether he can stop it is another thing entirely...

Robin:  What we've learned about Robin (though we sort of knew already) is that she is kind and compassionate.  She was willing to risk her job and her safety to make sure that those young girls were away from Brockbank, a known pedophile.
I think Strike could have handled Robin better here. She isn't going to give up on Zahara and her family, but she might be prepared to wait a few days for the case to finish, particularly if he shares what he knows and plans.
Yeah, I agree. I think both of them are a bit too stubborn here, because both of them sits on information they don't share with each other for periods. If they were a bit more open to each others ideas and plans, they would both benefit.   

Also, I wonder if not some part of Cormoran's decision to fire her came from his wish to keep her out of harm's way? This way he could also truthfully spread the knowledge that he had a new secretary and set the trap up for the killer.


I think Strike is right when he decides that Robin is the marrying kind, and he is definitely not ready for that kind of commitment. Despite what he thinks of Matthew I think he will be glad that Robin is married, providing a firm barrier to romance, meaning Strike can be more relaxed about their working relationship.
Yeah, I can see why this would make sense to Cormoran, I'm just not sure this particular barrier has much chance of a long time survival...  :P


Slightly off topic, it is Cormoran's birthday today (23rd November) according to this post on Twitter.
Did she ever answer when Robin's was?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 09:16:06 PM by Evreka »
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November 28, 2015, 12:20:43 AM
Reply #19

paint it Black

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Shanker:  I agree with many of you that he is an interesting addition to the cast of characters, and I'd hope to see more of him in future Strike novels.  But I also thought that of Al Rokeby in The Silkworm, and he wasn't mentioned once in Career of Evil.  As to whether Shanker helped Robin for free... do we know for sure that she didn't pay him?...
On the contrary we know that she payed him:
Quote
Career of Evil (Kindle Locations 6749-6751).
She had three days in which to plan, because she had to wait for her accomplice to get hold of a car and find a gap in his busy schedule. Meanwhile she told Linda that her Jimmy Choos were too tight for her, the style too flashy, and allowed her mother to accompany her as she exchanged them for cash.
She payed him with her Mum's 500 pounds, intended for wedding shoes... However, Shanker did agree to drive Stike up to Robin's wedding here and now, while waiting for the money that payed for the trip.

My apologies: I misunderstood what you said above about Shanker "suddenly being all generous and knightly".  I thought you were referring to when he helped Robin, but now I understand that you meant when he drove Strike to the wedding on credit.  My bad!

Obviously Elin is attracted to him, but I think the only thing he gets out of that relationship is the sex, and to his credit, he seems to be concluding that this is not enough for him to continue seeing her.
I am not sure he has the choice any more after what happened at the resturant (ruining her dress and walking out, then (as far as we know) making no attempt to patch things up.

Good point -- he pretty much as good as ended things right there, but I suppose not "officially", as he mentions to Shanker on the way to the wedding that he "forgot to ditch someone".  ::)

Since we know that more books around the two of them are planned, Cormoran must somehow be able to placate her and make her come back to his office - unless, in the next book she'll be working at the MET?! Do you think that could be a possibility?!

Good point; we know almost for certain that they'll be working together again, since we know that more books are planned in the series.  It would be an interesting twist if Robin were to work at the Met, but I don't see it happening.  I think Galbraith sees Strike and Robin as a team.

I think the phone thing could have stopped the wedding or perhaps the honeymoon. However I see her "I do" addressed to both Matthew and Strike - she is accepting Matthew as her husband, but she is also answering Strike's implied question - by turning up at the wedding he is showing he has forgiven her and is asking her to come back. She is happy because her dream job as a detective is back on. I think Matthew's best course is to confess to what he has done to her phone while she is still on a high and ask her to leave Strike blocked until the honeymoon is over. He could suggest she gives Strike a few minutes at the reception to discuss the main points of the case (it would probably result in a better honeymoon if Robin knows the key points as I can see her glued to the news as the full story comes out otherwise).
I, too, expected that phone incident to stop the wedding from happening, but as it did...  :ron: I suppose Robin does not yet know about it.

I wonder if she really read in all that in that instantly at seeing Cormoran?  I'm still inclined to think she married Matthew in spite, to show Cormoran that all is well and she can take her being fired and yet become happy (on the surface that is). I guess time will tell... But we know that Matthew has very little imagination and I can't imagine him wanting to discuss what happened to her phone on their wedding day. So I doubt he'd be at all happy to give Robin and Cormoran any time together on the wedding. Now, whether he can stop it is another thing entirely...

I think it would be a bit of an extreme reaction to marry someone out of spite.  Robin was describes as "beaming" when she saw Strike at the wedding; that sounds to me like she was genuinely very happy to see him, not like she was gloating at how well she can get along without him.  And although Matthew might not be happy to let Robin chat with Cormoran on the wedding day (or any day, really  ;D), I think he'd be wise to take roonwit's advice and come clean while Robin is still feeling giddy from the wedding.  Matthew has before shown a willingness (or at least appear to) to support Robin's job in order to get back in her good graces (as when he helped her to practice making her case to Strike for ending her work-at-home assignment).

I'm almost wondering if Robin and Matthew didn't have some sort of agreement about Strike that hinged upon whether or not he attended the wedding.  Something like, Matthew made Robin promise to cut Strike out of her life completely if Strike didn't contact her before Robin and Matthew became man and wife.  (Since he's already put the block on her phone, Matthew probably thinks he's got it sewed up at this point.)  Robin would be very sad that Strike never calls her, but when he shows up at the ceremony just in time (and his battered state would likely support a good reason why he couldn't have called), Robin is super-happy that Strike has made contact again, and at the very least they can still be friends.

Also, I wonder if not some part of Cormoran's decision to fire her came from his wish to keep her out of harm's way? This way he could also truthfully spread the knowledge that he had a new secretary and set the trap up for the killer.

I thought this as well!  In fact, I thought briefly that he would later come to let Robin in on the secret so she'd know that she still had a job.  Not how it worked out, though!  :shake:

Slightly off topic, it is Cormoran's birthday today (23rd November) according to this post on Twitter.
Did she ever answer when Robin's was?
I checked the link roonwit supplied, and she did later reply that Robin's birthday is October 9.


Cuppa is discussing Harper Lee's Go Set a Watchman.  Please join us!
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